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Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

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Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#31

Post by Syonyk »

bobthebuilders wrote: post #11
Analemma_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For about the zillionth time, space heating with Bitcoin mining is about one-quarter as energy-efficient as using an actual heat pump and so the “we can heat buildings with it!” argument does not actually excuse the massive energy use at all.

Bitcoins use an entropy increasing resistance hash function, which makes it terrible for heating and cooling. There's a reason why we should use FedCoin instead of Bitcoin or cash or gold.

It... what?

If you put 1000W of electrical energy into a Bitcoin miner, you get 1000W of heat out the far end. It's the same efficiency as a resistive element space heater, just has done some work (useful or not, it's still work) on the way through.

Same thing for a computer running BOINC or Folding@Home. Power goes in, heat comes out, but you've done something useful in the gap.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#32

Post by elil17 »

artifact_44 wrote: post #25
elil17 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s actually worse than gas due to the inefficiencies inherent in power generation and transmission

nonsense. it's electricity. Gas doesn't have the option of coming from carbon neutral sources.

Well sure if you happen to live somewhere that has 100% carbon neutral electricity - but in that (very rare) case the electricity use for mining Bitcoin without heating your house is also not an environmental problem. In reality, the vast majority of Russian electricity comes from fossil fuels.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#33

Post by thesausageking »

mkl95 wrote: post #21

Bitcoin is an extremely inefficient computing platform. There's no silver lining to BTC, it's simply a moderately big, potentially huge mistake in the history of modern technology.

Inefficient compared with what? Gold requires a ton more energy. As does the existing banking system.

Bitcoin uses less electricity than Christmas lights and provides a completely electric, transparent, uncensorable currency.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#35

Post by beiller »

elil17 wrote: post #8
KETpXDDzR wrote: post #3

In Siberia they heat using btc mining: https://archive.curbed.com/2017/11/9/16619032/bitcoin-mining...

Unfortunately it’s still way, way less efficient than other heating systems like heat pumps This also doesn’t address the wasted materials and labor used to make the chips.

Not really. Heat pumps can't be used in cold climates due to ice forming on heat fins which breaks the efficiency. It's why we use a lot of baseboard heaters in Canada. Bitcoin mining would be perfect for electric heating of homes here. Plus the added bonus of eliminating green house gas emissions from burning natural gas in a furnace (how my house is heated). The problem with baseboard is that gas heating is far cheaper than electric. So could Bitcoin actually be used to make the world greener?

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#38

Post by renewedrebecca »

danlugo92 wrote: post #24
mkl95 wrote: post #21

Bitcoin is an extremely inefficient computing platform. There's no silver lining to BTC, it's simply a moderately big, potentially huge mistake in the history of modern technology.

Then why did Elon Musk buy 1.5 billion dollars of it?

Don’t confuse being rich with being ethical or wise. (This is a kind of appeal to authority, too)

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#39

Post by CrazyStat »

artifact_44 wrote: post #28
Analemma_ wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For about the zillionth time, space heating with Bitcoin mining is about one-quarter as energy-efficient as using an actual heat pump and so the “we can heat buildings with it!” argument does not actually excuse the massive energy use at all.

So.. somehow the heat output of a mining computer just disappears? Oh wait that's nonsense, because your CPU is literally a heat pump.

No, your CPU is a resistive heater, which is less efficient than a heat pump.

Re: Why Can't Computing at the Heart of Bitcoin Be More Useful?

#40

Post by wespiser_2018 »

ericjang wrote: post #5

Setting aside the advantages of Proof-of-Stake in terms of energy consumption, and setting aside the "green energy buyer of last resort" argument that the BTC maximalists often say, and setting aside the theoretical requirements for a valid PoW function, I do think it's tricky to argue which computing is inherently "valuable" or "not valuable". There is this intuition that guessing a bunch of random numbers doesn't c…

No, it's not "tricky" to argue which computing is inherently "valuable" or "not valuable" when the examples are research that will benefit for all mankind, and PoW is so incredibly wasteful for the benefit enriching so few. Even those NN are no where near as wasteful for the benefit of having pre-trained weights anyone can use and build on forever.

We need to stop thinking that tech inherently neutral and without moral or ethical implications when there are clear benefactors and externalities.

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