Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#91

Post by varjag » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #33

spoonjim wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not, but it sets the precedent that the FBI will seize bitcoin without any kind of due process when it is able to recover proceeds from a criminal transaction . This jeopardizes the use of Bitcoin as a currency for cross-border criminal transactions which is a large if not majority share of its use case. So it’s easy to see why its value went down — fewer criminals will want to use it.

>This jeopardizes the use of Bitcoin as a currency for cross-border criminal transactions which is a large if not majority share of its use case. Do criminals seriously expect that bitcoin (or any other cryptocurrency) is safe against the wallet being hacked? Hardware/cold wallets have been around for years, so this is more of an opsec issue than a technology issue.

It's a lot harder than tracing cashout after a SWIFT transfer.

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#92

Post by lottin » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #85

lottin wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’m also wondering why the hackers didn’t request payment in a currency that’s more difficult to trace. Because they need to cash out somehow? Being crypto-currency rich doesn't mean much if you're unable to exchange the crypto-currency for real money.

No not really People are content with crypto They can invest, buy computer games, hardware and acquire general goods and services There is no “I want to buy this flashy house/yacht how do I get crypto out” Its easy to launder and easy to use without doing so, but also easy to launder whenever they get around to it These guys didnt

In the real world? No, you can't buy a house or a yacht with crypto. You can't even buy groceries or pay at a restaurant or at a petrol station.

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#93

Post by bredren » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:43 PM UTC

dehrmann wrote: post #89

bredren wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was not about $2M. It was a response to what was publicly interpreted as a nation-state cyber attack on infrastructure. This was about principle and demonstration of capability. If it is true the US has the ability to calculate BTC wallet keys as fast as it did, the price should fall.

> This was about principle and demonstration of capability. Still not worth it if a crpyto function has been broken. If it was because of the encrypted chat app honeypot they ran, it might be different, but even then, only if criminals are moving to something else. They also don't have the perpetrator.

I disagree.

If the US has the ability to quickly break a BTC wallet, it is a public demonstration of warfare that should act as a deterrent in other theaters of war.

> They also don't have the perpetrator.

I don’t think we have a full manifest of who was involved in the colonial attack or the personnel that have made up Darkside.

Even if we did, successful pressure on the perpetrators or their successors does not require holding the individuals directly.

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#94

Post by lordnacho » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

walexander wrote: post #52

baby wrote: post #25

More detail on how they managed to get access to that password/private key? Edit: I found the bitcoin address https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/bc1q7eqww9dmm9p48hx5y...

The most plausible theory I've heard is that the attackers used a BTC tumbler that was a honeypot controlled by feds. But who knows, maybe the FBI has a quantum computer we don't know about.

Sounds plausible, that one. Also perhaps the ransom gang had a staging server with a bunch of keys somewhere.

But the tumbler idea actually seems more plausible to me.

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#95

Post by actually_a_dog » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #3

Event 1 as story 2 happens. This always drives me nuts about financial reporting.

Literally the definition of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#96

Post by bredren » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:48 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #79

bredren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m open to alternatives, though I have felt that the response to this involved the highest level cyber warfare capabilities of the United States. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27156073 I would not be surprised to find out the US has this capability.

I would be surprised if they would reveal themselves as having it for $2.3 million.

See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27437342

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#97

Post by actually_a_dog » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:50 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #59

eru wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, it's usually pretty hard to say why stock prices change. Even with hindsight. Mostly because anticipation is so important.

So: absent proof don't say anything.

Saying nothing doesn't sell ads and subscriptions.

something something incentives....

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#98

Post by baby » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

tome wrote: post #88

jzchang wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently through the FBI docs... Ransom was paid to darkside Darkside tries to launder money on blockchain Through blockchain explorer, the BTC ends up on Coinbase in attempt to liquidate. Coinbase has keys, and hands them over to FBI.

Ah, it's very interesting if they were seized after having been transferred to a different wallet. That is going to reduce trust in Bitcoin considerably. It will be difficult to be sure that the coins you just bought are not subject to seizure by the authorities.

It’s well-known that money transfers are public in bitcoin and on/off ramp via virtual asset service providers like coinbase requires kyc and is subject to aml/ctf (anti money laundering and counter terrorism financing)

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#99

Post by vmception » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

lottin wrote: post #92

vmception wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No not really People are content with crypto They can invest, buy computer games, hardware and acquire general goods and services There is no “I want to buy this flashy house/yacht how do I get crypto out” Its easy to launder and easy to use without doing so, but also easy to launder whenever they get around to it These guys didnt

In the real world? No, you can't buy a house or a yacht with crypto. You can't even buy groceries or pay at a restaurant or at a petrol station.

I’m saying two things:

1) These arent problems for ransomware hackers because they arent goals for ransomware hackers

2) even if these were goals for ransomware hackers these aren't problems either

It requires a special hubris to really think people that earn crypto want fiat. Just like people assume people that use Monero want clean bitcoin, its an absurdity that doesnt even consider that many just want and keep Monero. Its the same for fiat.

You would be more interested in discussing number 2 because I still say converting illicit funds to fiat isnt an unsolved or even difficult problem. But its so low on the list of priorities for this user story that its not really worth splitting hairs over. Ransomware hackers dont have an issue exchanging time for food and shelter, they are able to just accumulate and play in the crypto ecosystem which is what they really want to do already, with more. To many, its like someone stealing gold bars. Sure you go melt down an ingot or two eventually, but you’re really just hoarding the gold the sake of hoarding the gold. Crypto has the additional benefit of being internationally liquid for other digital assets and digital services instantly.

Re: Bitcoin extends losses after U.S. seizes most of Colonial ransom

#100

Post by t0mbstone » Tue, Jun 08, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

mypastself wrote: post #4

I find it amusing how all the news reports gloss over the fact that the FBI somehow got access to the wallet’s private key. I’m also wondering why the hackers didn’t request payment in a currency that’s more difficult to trace.

I still don't believe the FBI actually seized the bitcoin. We have zero proof of anything.

We are just supposed to take the FBI on their word? There is a huge motivation for them to lie about seizing the BTC, in an effort to discourage other copycat crypto criminals.