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FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

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Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#131
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That mirrors my experience. It's not POs or PMs that hear about some new niche browser feature only supported by Chrome. It's devs that want to play with the latest toys and kind of look at you weird if you use Safari. There's an annoying assumption from other devs that I must be using Safari out of ignorance. They quickly get over it, but it's a problematic first impression thing when working with new teams.

Oh man, I split my time between Safari and Firefox. I must be some kind of sicko.

I solely use Safari because it greatly increases my battery life.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#132
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There simply isn't a way to implement this on Firefox as it is. It's lacking the necessary API for end-to-end encryption: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27432001 Yes, many pages support only Chrome for no good reason at all, but in this instance, the ball is 100% with Mozilla.

Actually, Apple has many developers on this team, and Firefox is an open source project. If we could create an feeling that companies that claim to be developer friendly make sure that FF is also compatible, it would be a huge win for all involved.

While at first glance it would be strange to expect Apple to make these changes; I don't feel its unreasonable from any perspective. Apple should hold a long-term interest in keeping the web diverse; Safari will never reasonably hold a majority/plurality marketshare, so their second highest priority from a revenue/ux perspective should be "sticking to the standards" and helping toward ensuring web developers don't take on a "Chrome and nothing else" stance.

Granted, its also understandable that Apple officially working on Firefox would be "article on The Verge" level of news and even an armchair commentator would be able to connect the dots from what they're working on to predicting Facetime was coming to web. Though, isn't that what Jobs originally promised? Open source protocol and such?

At the end of the day, I'm sick and tired of the prevailing hyper-endstage-capitalist excuse of "they won't make a billion dollars from doing this, so not only will they not do it, but they SHOULDN'T". Its everywhere on HN, and its actual brain worms. Corporate decisions shouldn't only be analyzed through this lens; there's a far broader humanistic lens that codifies a higher standard that we absolutely can reasonably hold all companies to; not from a legal sense (HackerNews isn't a court and your votes are not a jury decision, some armchair commentators need to be reminded), not even from a general population public relations sense; but from a viewpoint that Ethics is not a democracy, there are some ethical positions that won't make money, aren't required by law, and aren't even popular, but are nonetheless crucially important to avoiding a Blade Runner-eque corpo-cyberpunk future (or, with some very legitimate issues, species extinction or at least achieving and maintaining a high standard of living for most of our species).

The sibling argument of Firefox's CEO making a ton of money being reprehensible is... I mean, jeeze, they make awesome software, open source, freedom respecting, privacy respecting, and manage to pay their leadership & employees well? Isn't that the dream? That should be the goal; not be derided. There's a middleground between hyper-endstage-brain-worm-capitalism and "all software is developed by starving monks in a monastery". I understand its hard to believe this, because it isn't an extreme; its easy to let gravity drag your ethical viewpoint to an extreme on the left or right in this age of outrageous social media, but neither extreme on any ethical dimension is conductive to a positive future for humanity.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#133
post #49

It may seem an advantage to use the latest cutting edge features of a single platform, instead of using well established standards which are compatible with every browser. Sure, you are going to leave out some small minority of users, but you gain access to many new features. However, you are helping push the web become an increasingly centralized place, controlled by just a few entities, with interests which are ver…

Apple's choice here was likely to not release the product at all, or use an open standard that Firefox doesn't yet support, and allow them to support it over time.

Using features that not all browsers have implemented _yet_ isn't always bad for the open web. If the feature is important, the other browsers prioritize it.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#134
post #111
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There simply isn't a way to implement this on Firefox as it is. It's lacking the necessary API for end-to-end encryption: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27432001 Yes, many pages support only Chrome for no good reason at all, but in this instance, the ball is 100% with Mozilla.

What necessary E2E API does Chrome provide?

WebRTC Insertable Streams: https://www.chromestatus.com/feature/6321945865879552

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#135

If you review Mozilla's business practices, constant spending on NGOs and Politics, ludicrous executive compensation, and recent layoffs of the engineering team, constant buying and starting of new projects (Pocket, Firefox OS) only to abandon them, and so on, it is clear that at least part of the story is that Firefox has been through incredible mismanagement even as they should have been in the fight for their live…

Some of the activities you described are by the Mozilla Foundation, not the Mozilla Corporation. The two have different sources of funding, so the Foundation's "spending on NGOs and politics" doesn't have any bearing on the funds used on Firefox development. The split between the two exists so that one org doesn't have the constraints of a non-profit: the non-profit Foundation can take tax-deductible donations while the Corporations can do things that a tax-deductible charity can't.

I'm not a fan of some of the Corporation's recent non-FF work (Pocket acquisition, Mullvad-based VPN, etc). But saying that they're expensive and take away from FF funding is inaccurate. These projects are intended to create new revenue streams for the Mozilla corporation.

I think that Mozilla having to chase new revenue streams in questionable ways (like having a proprietary service, Pocket) in an indictment on the Web's complexity and how it takes billions of dollars to build a browser. Making ethical compromises to fund continued development is an extreme but real example of the consequences of software bloat.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#136
post #3

What are (if any) the technical blockers for Firefox to be considered on the same level of support?

You cannot achieve true E2E encryption on Firefox as it doesn't support insertable streams, so I guess this is where the limitation is. EDIT: bug on bugzilla https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1631263

It looks like mozilla has marked that standard as worth prototyping: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/330

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#137
post #24

From what I've heard so far about FaceTime on non-apple devices, I'm extremely unimpressed.

And that's why we use Jitsi, Conversations, Jami... that is pieces of software that were designed to interoperate, not just work in a very specific set of circumstances on particular hardware, with a certain OS version and when the weather is right.

I use both Firefox and Jitsi, but I gotta say, Jitsi has horribly buggy Firefox support.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#138
Meh... The way I see it:

The thing is that only IT guys actually know what's going on on the IT world (most web-developers are excluded because their job requires Chrome!).

As such only ITs use Firefox (and a few privacy concern and well informed people!)

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#139

If you review Mozilla's business practices, constant spending on NGOs and Politics, ludicrous executive compensation, and recent layoffs of the engineering team, constant buying and starting of new projects (Pocket, Firefox OS) only to abandon them, and so on, it is clear that at least part of the story is that Firefox has been through incredible mismanagement even as they should have been in the fight for their live…

Spot on. Browser competition nowadays is all about each vendor's ability to implement new standards – and in this case Firefox is clearly lagging.

Funnily, I find safari to be a worse offender often when looking to implement a slightly newer standard. Especially safari on Mac. Date inputs have been in iOS safari for a while now and are still only in technology preview on Mac.

Re: FaceTime on the web requires Chrome or Edge, no mention of Firefox

#140
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There simply isn't a way to implement this on Firefox as it is. It's lacking the necessary API for end-to-end encryption: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27432001 Yes, many pages support only Chrome for no good reason at all, but in this instance, the ball is 100% with Mozilla.

Actually, Apple has many developers on this team, and Firefox is an open source project. If we could create an feeling that companies that claim to be developer friendly make sure that FF is also compatible, it would be a huge win for all involved.

Firefox is an open source project, but pushing large changes upstream is difficult (and this is true of pretty much any project). Even if Apple had the patches, Mozilla might not take them.
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