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Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#251

Post by simondotau »

webmobdev wrote: post #246
simondotau wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course, but I was responding to the specific claim that Apple "gets 30% for it." Arguing about the $99/year developer fee is a pointless rabbit hole. You might as well also accuse Apple of selling the developers an iPhone and a Mac for developing the scam app. And then don't forget to accuse the electrical grid operator of selling electricity to the scammers.

Arguing about the $99/year developer fee is a pointless rabbit hole. No, it isn't - till Apple instituted this practice developers never paid any company for the privilege of creating software and adding value to their platform . Whether the app is free or paid, Apple still makes money when a developer wants to distribute the app on their platform and this acts as another incentive for them to be lax.

You have a serious issue with the concept of scale if you think that Apple, a trillion dollar company, is in any way influenced by a $99/year developer fee. Any possible positive incentive is grossly outstripped by the risk of reputational damage.

Do you seriously think that Apple values the promise of a scammer’s $99 fee recurring next year more then they would value having fewer scams in their store?

I genuinely believe you’re being unserious here.

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#252

Post by gentleman11 »

mhh__ wrote: post #216
gentleman11 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2% is pretty low compared to random websites (it’s your birthday! Enter your info in this link so we can send you a gift!)

Most people don't browse random websites

Only because those sites never appear in google search. So google search is the App Store of the internet?

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#253

Post by tekknik »

fsflover wrote: post #249
tekknik wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why would someone release malware in f-droid, when the user base is not your average joe and would likely know how to counter or detect any attacks? This is the second person in this thread to think using an open source repo as an example carries weight. There are less users, therefore less malware is released here in the first place and then there’s less load for the malware filters for that that does get through…

Your argument does not hold for GNU/Linux repositories. There are plenty of good targets there.

Oh sure, that’s why I didn’t include it. But we have historically seen issues with those repos haven’t we?

My comment stands, why target f-droid?

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#254

Post by tekknik »

atatatat wrote: post #248
tekknik wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there’s a lot of faulting apple here, when you point out it’s a “humans failing”. Does this mean you understand the process completely and you can do better?

Probably not, which is why he hasn't placed himself in the position of "arbiter of what's right and wrong on phones", the way Apple has with their App Store.

so then what’s the argument here, if not perfect, remove?

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#255

Post by 411111111111111 »

tekknik wrote: post #243
411111111111111 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their users too, as shown in every other comment here.

So, enlighten me, how does another app store increase safety if Apple is writing the APIs used by the other app stores? clearly it doesn’t, it just provides options for more of the same. so then I wonder what the point to all of this is, and the only idea that comes to mind is a bunch of tech savvy android users really want to use iphone but can’t/won’t until there’s additional gatekeepers, err i mean app stores.

We're just rolling our eyes that people actually believe that the full control apple wants over their products has anything to do with security.

It's the most profitable course of action, that's all there is to it.

But to address your question: if apple allowed other stores, they could be significantly more picky about what's allowed on their store. This would consequently increase the security for people only using the official store.

This is obviously a no-go however, as that would be less profitable then the current situation.

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#256

Post by fsflover »

tekknik wrote: post #253
fsflover wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument does not hold for GNU/Linux repositories. There are plenty of good targets there.

Oh sure, that’s why I didn’t include it. But we have historically seen issues with those repos haven’t we? My comment stands, why target f-droid?

Because it's technically the same as GNU/Linux repositories (i.e. relies on community and FLOSS). Therefore, one can expect that when it grows, and average Joe starts using it, there will be no huge inflow of malware in it.

> But we have historically seen issues with those repos haven’t we?

Care to elaborate?

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#257

Post by tekknik »

fsflover wrote: post #256
tekknik wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh sure, that’s why I didn’t include it. But we have historically seen issues with those repos haven’t we? My comment stands, why target f-droid?

Because it's technically the same as GNU/Linux repositories (i.e. relies on community and FLOSS). Therefore, one can expect that when it grows, and average Joe starts using it, there will be no huge inflow of malware in it. > But we have historically seen issues with those repos haven’t we? Care to elaborate?

The two being open source is an apples to oranges comparison.

Here’s one issue we’ve had with these repos:

https://lwn.net/Articles/295406/

Then there’s things like NPM that’s broken quite a few production deployments in spectacularly public ways.

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#258

Post by [deleted] »

tekknik wrote: post #257
fsflover wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it's technically the same as GNU/Linux repositories (i.e. relies on community and FLOSS). Therefore, one can expect that when it grows, and average Joe starts using it, there will be no huge inflow of malware in it. > But we have historically seen issues with those repos haven’t we? Care to elaborate?

The two being open source is an apples to oranges comparison. Here’s one issue we’ve had with these repos: https://lwn.net/Articles/295406/ Then there’s things like NPM that’s broken quite a few production deployments in spectacularly public ways.

[deleted]

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#259

Post by lukifer »

simondotau wrote: post #224
lukifer wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The words "strict" and "rigorous" do a lot of heavy lifting in setting user (and market) expectations. We programmers are pre-inclined to think in terms of Boolean logic, but the law frequently splits hairs on qualitative value judgments; there is no simple rubric for what counts as "reckless endangerment" or "gross negligence", for instance. I think it's a given that no one expects any QA or security process to perf…

In my opinion, this anecdote is enough reason for Apple to reject any app that purports to be a cryptocurrency wallet or in any way be a secure mechanism for cryptocurrency. There's no practical way for Apple to prove that any app won't betray the user. Or in the alternative, Perhaps Apple should create a different tier of app review for any apps which claim to facilitate financial transactions (other than purchases,…

I remember the early of days of Bitcoin, when Apple was rejecting wallet apps by default. I was honestly surprised that they relented: from consumer safety, to regulatory concerns, to 30% protectionism, they have every incentive (from their walled-garden/theme-park philosophy) to categorically ban on-device wallets.

> There's no practical way for Apple to prove that any app won't betray the user.

This is honestly a fundamental problem with both the App Review model, and the very concept of cryptocurrency (which for the record, I'm positively inclined towards, both technologically and ideologically):

- The Review model because the developer doesn't actually submit code, and static analysis tools can only go so far. Even if Apple started requiring source (opening many thorny IP liability issues), no reviewer can realistically audit every line. Even then, the mere fact WebViews are trivially common means a developer (or a malicious hacker) can always swap out the web backend with phishing attacks, credit card scams, etc.

- The cryptocurrency model because while it tells a story of "trustless" interaction and autonomy, in practice even the most knowledgable techies end up having to outsource trust to developers, firms, and communities. While it tends to be a safe bet to trust a highly-trafficked community GitHub over a random .ru site, (a) it still requires making a trust decision on imperfect information, and (b) non-technical users suffer an agent-principal dilemma when it comes time to make those decisions, which is a prerequisite to actually use crypto-currency. There are many, many shortcomings to the central-banking state currency model; but at least it has a pretty well-defined UX to the average "holder", and some hope of recourse in the event of a scam.

FWIW, browser-based wallets (with or without client-side storage) do exist, and would probably be used more heavily on iOS if Apple were to forbid native wallets. In which case, it's possible the guy who lost his life savings would have gotten scammed by a "trusted" web app instead.

Re: Apple’s tightly controlled App Store is teeming with scams

#260

Post by tekknik »

411111111111111 wrote: post #255
tekknik wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, enlighten me, how does another app store increase safety if Apple is writing the APIs used by the other app stores? clearly it doesn’t, it just provides options for more of the same. so then I wonder what the point to all of this is, and the only idea that comes to mind is a bunch of tech savvy android users really want to use iphone but can’t/won’t until there’s additional gatekeepers, err i mean app stores.

We're just rolling our eyes that people actually believe that the full control apple wants over their products has anything to do with security. It's the most profitable course of action, that's all there is to it. But to address your question: if apple allowed other stores, they could be significantly more picky about what's allowed on their store. This would consequently increase the security for people only using…

I’m still failing to see the hand wavy logic that results in them being more picky if there are more stores. garbage apps (apps providing no real value but are otherwise safe) are not the problem. malware is. so they’re somehow being less picky about malware being on the store yet increasing the quantity of stores will allow them to remove more malware?

also you do understand businesses need to make profit, and keeping their customers happy is definitely the right way to do it in my book. so given your logic here, how do you explain all of the other privacy features apple gives away for free?

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