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XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

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Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#211
post #182

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm a guy so obviously don't have the experience (any) women have but I will say this. Three things will essentially give away your gender: 1. Your stated gender; 2. Your name (with a high degree of accuracy in most cultures that I'm aware of); and 3. Your photos. So for (1) to have any impact, (2) and (3) must be hidden. Since all profiles are public, I'm not sure you can hide (2).…

Sometimes, the way in which you form paragraphs and sentences can give away an individuals gender identity. Check this out, and the accompanying paper.

Female Score: 8

Male Score: 14

The Gender Genie thinks the author of this passage is: male!

http://www.bookblog.net/gender/genie.php

http://www.cs.biu.ac.il/~koppel/papers/male-female-text-fina...

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#212
post #182

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm a guy so obviously don't have the experience (any) women have but I will say this. Three things will essentially give away your gender: 1. Your stated gender; 2. Your name (with a high degree of accuracy in most cultures that I'm aware of); and 3. Your photos. So for (1) to have any impact, (2) and (3) must be hidden. Since all profiles are public, I'm not sure you can hide (2).…

There are more names than you realise that give away little about gender, or are used by people across the gender spectrum. For example, Alex, Sam, Rowan, Raven, and Kim. And as for photos, it's harder to tell than you think from a static photo, as a lot of gender presentation comes from body language. Speaking of which, photos only give you gender presentation - which can be quite different to someone's self-dentifi…

Well said. And plenty of people use avatars rather than photos.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#213
post #194
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was simply being annoyed at an unbacked statement like that, especially given the topic. We always seem to forget that being a woman is, in fact, bloody dangerous. Something like one in five American women experiences a rape. We aren't discussing some abstract edge case; half of the population lives in completely justifiable terror of something that actually happens . I mention gender because that modifies the stat…

I don't see how you arrive at the statistic of "one in five american women experiencing a rape" from 28 rapes per hundred thousand people. Even if we considered that only women were victim of rapes and that half of the incidents weren't reported, it would still amount to something like 112 rapes/100k so around 0.1%. Anecdotically, none of my female friends were ever raped which doesn't match with your assertion that…

Anecdotically, none of my female friends were ever raped

So far as you know.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#214
post #12

Guys, lets not get carried away by the issue here. The issue is NOT about gender identification. It is Google+ not providing the ability to hide your gender on your profile (I won't say they're FORCING you to post your gender). The issue of Gender Identification is merely an example provided to justify the usage of such a feature. So let's avoid a massive gender debate here, when you can read all about it in the post…

There absolutely should be an option to hide gender on your profile. I was lucky to get a +1 invite early but didn't create an account because of this issue.

Here's why: I'm a hacker. I do freelance work for a living. I avoid all references to my gender in anything work-related because it creates too much extra mental overhead. Instead of focusing on getting things done I end up wondering whether a disagreement on a technical issue would disappear if I was male. Or wondering if I didn't get a contract because I'm female. Or (worse) if I got a contract because of affirmative action or because a company is trying to cultivate an open forward-thinking culture, rather than for my technical ability.

It isn't that I want to hide that I am female, exactly, its just that it doesn't have any affect on the quality of my work, but disclosing the fact that I am female unfortunately can create unrelated complications that get in the way of doing my job.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#215
post #192
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might prefer the gender-neutral pronoun "they". However, I think doing things this way is going to be quite difficult to implement when you consider multiple languages. Male/Female/Other with an option to hide this information is much easier a solution.

They is traditionally plural.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Generic_they It's been around for a very long time.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#217
post #26
post #2

He's written about gender very well before.[1] It is certainly a subject that I don't know very much about, but I appreciate that it can get very complicated very quickly. What are the good reasons for requiring it to be public? Secondly, do you think that "other" is enough? To what lengths should developers go to handle rare corner cases? [1]: http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/06/sex-and-gender/

I vote for the solution below which asks "how do you wish to be identified" instead of "what is your gender".

This fixes the issue of "there's more to gender than male/female/other", but it doesn't fix the issue of "women might not want to get sexualized comments sent to them".

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#218
post #133
post #49

I take great offense to my culture being defined as "relentless treatment of women as objects teaches them that they are defined by the one thing that men around them want from them" Yes some people do that, but VERY few. It's as silly as thinking that all gay men speak with lisps, yes some do and those that do are very identifiable as likely gay. Yes there is always that guy in the bar that is inappropriate with wom…

You seem to be suggesting that our culture can't be described as objectifying women unless all or most men are assholes to women in bars or engage in similar behavior, and in your other comments, unless such behavior happens exclusively to women. Which is absurd. As others have pointed out, if even 10% or 1% of men behave this way, it creates a hostile environment. If 1 out of every 100 random people you encounter pu…

"Constant sexualization and stereotyping in advertising and other media create social expectations that many people aren't comfortable with."

Look, men get to use trillions of sperm cells, which means evolution has hard-wired their brains to be magnetically attracted to anything feminine. Advertising uses this not because it is "sexualized", but because men will buy toxic waste by the barrel if you draw nice titties on it.

Women only get to use a dozen or so egg cells, and each one is very risky and resource intensive, which means evolution has hard-wired their brains to be an always-on filter for genetic quality in prospective mates. This is naturally uncomfortable, and has been since before their monkey girl ancestors came down out of the trees.

"Yes, men are sexualized as well, but not to anywhere near the same degree, ..."

Watch an advertiser sell SUVs to women: they have a big, hulking, strong look and are advertised as serving and protecting the kids. That is the masculine face of advertising. (The latest American Subaru ads have it both ways, showing the kids growing up in the vehicle, ending with a cute teenage girl getting out of a car with a ... what is that thing on the hood? ... oh yes, the air port for the turbocharger.)

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#219
post #182

I have mixed feelings about this. I'm a guy so obviously don't have the experience (any) women have but I will say this. Three things will essentially give away your gender: 1. Your stated gender; 2. Your name (with a high degree of accuracy in most cultures that I'm aware of); and 3. Your photos. So for (1) to have any impact, (2) and (3) must be hidden. Since all profiles are public, I'm not sure you can hide (2).…

As has been asserted in fragmented bits all over the place (here and in the original Google+ thread), the problem is that there is an enormous hiatus between personal and social ways of approaching gender.

On an individual scale you can see how personal expressions of sexual and gender identity can vary. [1] On a social scale, however, we deal with gender in a grossly simplified manner (and there are linguistic and historic forces which constrain us into defaulting to this attitude).

Mr Munroe is bringing up some issues (for what is worth, that of female-bullying attitude on the internet should be known to any gardener of virtual communities here on HN). But the whole issue is a much messier Pandora's box.

There are many people of either biological gender [2] who for different personal reasons wish to be more or less defined in terms of their sexual and gender identities, and in ways that a simple "I'm a {he, she, it}" form won't permit.

Imposing a (forcefully public!) choice is stepping on many people's toes, and I'm not quite sure what's the relevance of that. Google is smart. They could be gathering much better user-targeting data if they had implemented gender identity as a text field in the profile. [3] You know more about people (regardless of gender) who would fill that textbox with "dragon" than you can ever know about someone merely because they chose between man, woman, or other.

[1] An elegant if simplified reflection of what I'm talking about is given in this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2741580

[2] Not to mention the outliers to this binary opposition.

[3] See this thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2741536

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ps. — EDITED a couple phrasings.

pps. — Concerning your EDIT #2, I see where you're coming from and I assume no bad faith from you, but please realise that this position you're assuming is very hard to tell apart from the "she was raped because she was dressing slutty" argument which set the internet afire not a couple months ago.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#220
post #201

Every single reply to his post includes a picture. Tempest in a teapot. It seems even people who care about this issue enough to post don't care enough to protect their likenesses.

Ever think that people who care about the issue aren't going to use the service or going to use a "fake" photo?

So what problem are we talking about them? People who care don't reveal that information. Problem solved.

Fake photo, fake sex, fake name.

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