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XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

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Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#41
One advantage of publicly disclosing information about gender is that you know it's public. It's possible to glean someone's gender from the language they use (see http://bookblog.net/gender/genie.php), meaning people who kept their gender private may be lulled into a false sense of security. Admittedly I still agree that you should always have to option to select which of your details to make public (or to limit which groups/circles this information is available to), but thought I'd chuck in a counter argument to keep things interesting.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#42
post #15

This seems like a really pointlessly long rant that boils down to a feature request: Change the "other" category to "other/not-disclosed". Also do these women who don't want to disclose their gender really need Randall Munroe to file the bug report for them?

"Also do these women who don't want to disclose their gender really need Randall Munroe to file the bug report for them?"

That's disingenuous. He's simply acting as a good "beta tester" by filing a report on what he sees as a bug. I don't think he's setting himself up as "representing women", just someone who noticed a problem and has the ability to act on it (which is true of very few people in this case; how many Google+ users have used the feedback option?)

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#43
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that giving people an option to make it non-public would be sufficient. That's not a crazy corner case, really.

Yup I see it as an oversight. While I believe that people get overly sensitive about gender (or any politicall-incorrectness), I also believe that it is in their right to do so, and if Google does fulfil this request then all the better for it. Aside, though, this post by Randall seems a little overkill at this stage... unless Google has taken an obvious stance on the issue there is no reason to take umbrage.

He's making a point since this is such a frequently overlooked issue. By raising awareness, other companies and startups are less likely to make this mistake.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#44
post #8

I'm not sure why Google is getting a free pass on the public profiles requirement. Every other social network I've used has an option to block search engines from indexing your profile.

There is an option -- check near the bottom at https://profiles.google.com/me/about/edit/d .

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#45
post #27
post #2

He's written about gender very well before.[1] It is certainly a subject that I don't know very much about, but I appreciate that it can get very complicated very quickly. What are the good reasons for requiring it to be public? Secondly, do you think that "other" is enough? To what lengths should developers go to handle rare corner cases? [1]: http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/06/sex-and-gender/

Clearly, gender should be represented as a user-chosen 32-bit value with separate R, G, B, and A channels, and conveniently represented as an 8-digit hexadecimal number. In this Portable Network Gender (PNG) system, the R channel is degree of traditional female gender; the B is degree of traditional male gender; the G is a catchall for other gender expressions (or perhaps a lookup table rather than a magnitude); the…

Jokes aside, I like to fit people into two numbers between 0 and 1, non-inclusive. The first, number A represents your gender identification, with 0 being ideally female and 1 ideally male (remember the scale is non inclusive of the bounds). The second number B represents the gender identification that you're attracted to.

So, for example:

Hetero male: A=0.8, B=0.2

Gay male: A 0.7 b 0.9, or a 0.8 b 0.7

It's a convenient way to explain gender to nerds, and remember that there are error bars on each number that vary over a lifetime.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#46
post #15

This seems like a really pointlessly long rant that boils down to a feature request: Change the "other" category to "other/not-disclosed". Also do these women who don't want to disclose their gender really need Randall Munroe to file the bug report for them?

As with other minority issues, I'd imagine he's speaking out on it because he feels that:

- The population he speaks for is a minority: they aren't yet well represented within the group

- Those who are in the group may feel uncomfortable speaking out about it, particularly because they're a minority

- The issue is important enough to that minority that it may lead them to leave or not join (and so continue to be underrepresented), and the group and the minority are important enough to him that he thinks it's worth addressing.

The "long rant" serves to bring attention to the significance of the issue, as does the fact that someone so well known is taking the time to make it.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#47
post #16
post #2

He's written about gender very well before.[1] It is certainly a subject that I don't know very much about, but I appreciate that it can get very complicated very quickly. What are the good reasons for requiring it to be public? Secondly, do you think that "other" is enough? To what lengths should developers go to handle rare corner cases? [1]: http://blog.xkcd.com/2010/05/06/sex-and-gender/

I vote for the text field option.

I'm with you!

It would also be ideal, given the current sexist state of language, to add a combo box to choose if you want to be refered to as "he", "she", or, in what now seems like a distant utopia, gender-neutrally, obviously given each language possibilities. That would be so much a big step into having gender equality on the net that the fact no big social network has done it yet tells us about how misunderstood a problem discrimination and biases towards sex and gender are.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#48
I understand the issues that arise with forcing people to expose more about themselves, than they are comfortable with. From a personality standpoint, my google+ account is a well defined sliver of who I am as a whole, by design. Mostly because I consider it something that could be put on a resume.

As far as the social issues of such public knowledge, I wonder, is hiding from the problem, by sexually, racially, and or religiously homogenizing profiles ever going to help cure the problem in society that makes, making these things public, an issue? Certain males, act like jackasses around women, is putting them in an isolated bubble going to cure the problem?

Does training people that you can't say xy or z around people of a certain race, stop them from being racist? It just makes them Pavlov's Dog, they know saying those things are socially bad, and keep saying and doing the same exact things, when society is more lax about those things being said or done to a different group of people, say, homosexuals.

Sure it makes it harder for them to find people to act that way around, making it seem like its less of an issue, but does nothing to change the mentality that causes the behavior, they'll just find someone else to do it to, that is more socially acceptable, like Muslims. Hiding from it, is not the way, dealing with it, which is going to cause some discomfort is the you cure it.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#49
I take great offense to my culture being defined as "relentless treatment of women as objects teaches them that they are defined by the one thing that men around them want from them"

Yes some people do that, but VERY few. It's as silly as thinking that all gay men speak with lisps, yes some do and those that do are very identifiable as likely gay. Yes there is always that guy in the bar that is inappropriate with women, and he will get noticed, but did anyone bother to look at the VAST majority of men who do not engage in that behavior. These are also the same idiots who are getting into bar fights with other men. This doesn't make it acceptable but it's hardly a hallmark of my "culture". There are people who just don't respect other people in every culture.

As to being bigger and stronger, perhaps we should look to the nation of Japan and the feats its military was able to achieve with men roughly the size of north american women. Women are perfectly capable of defending themselves, not that they should have to, just like smaller men are perfectly capable of defending themselves, not that they should have to. These are again averages and if you look at the deviances you'll see that there are a lot of women who are larger than a lot of men.

Also, keep in mind that a man is twice as likely to be assaulted as a woman so from a statistical perspective it is men who should be fearing for their safety as they post their gender online.

I personally think it's a good idea for Google to make the settings private but it doesn't need the invocation of chivalric myths and the slander of an entire culture for it to happen. Frankly, the idea that women can't defend themselves and we need to add privacy settings to protect them seems more to perpetuate the ideals of chivalry than feminism.

Re: XKCD's Randall Munroe on Google+ requiring your gender to be public

#50
post #45
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clearly, gender should be represented as a user-chosen 32-bit value with separate R, G, B, and A channels, and conveniently represented as an 8-digit hexadecimal number. In this Portable Network Gender (PNG) system, the R channel is degree of traditional female gender; the B is degree of traditional male gender; the G is a catchall for other gender expressions (or perhaps a lookup table rather than a magnitude); the…

Jokes aside, I like to fit people into two numbers between 0 and 1, non-inclusive. The first, number A represents your gender identification, with 0 being ideally female and 1 ideally male (remember the scale is non inclusive of the bounds). The second number B represents the gender identification that you're attracted to. So, for example: Hetero male: A=0.8, B=0.2 Gay male: A 0.7 b 0.9, or a 0.8 b 0.7 It's a conveni…

I like this idea. Could be useful when doing some fuzzy computations.

EDIT According to the comment by walrus down the thread (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2741580), we should upgrade this system to use three numbers :).

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