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Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

farms.com

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Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pleasse stop rehashing free market platitudes without any thinking. Look at the actual manufacturers, realise that noone is producing simple tractors any more, where are they going to come from?

Belarus produces simple and cheap tractors since forever, they are popular in Russia and other CIS countries. Just import them.

An old Belarus 420A is a simple tractor. Even a modern 742 or 1220 isn't that complex. But it's simply not as capable as a Fastrac 4 or 8 series, or a Valtra N or C series, or a Deere 6, 7 or 8 series for example. They're just not in the same league in terms of what they can do with tool management, fitness for specific tasks or tool interop.

As a single example, there's nothing that Belarus make that I'd want to use for buckraking a heap of any real size. They don't have a JCB 435S equivalent, or a heavier Fendt or Claas.

They're great tools, but you're not going to get the hectares per hour of sowing or harvest or the movement of tonnage of the modern competitors.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on how this would come to be, in practice?

Well, it's not that hard to imagine, is it? Someone founds a company that produces tractors but they are simpler, cheaper and can be repaired. If that's what customers want, they _will_ gain market share. If not, then the demand isn't there.

...and of course, there will be zero patents infringed that would cause no injunction.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#43

> A few decades ago, any given farmer often had the skills and tools needed to quickly make repairs if their machinery broke down. These days, however, it’s not so straightforward. Most modern farm equipment is technologically advanced, containing computers and sensors that collect and transmit data. As a result, specific software tools are typically necessary to address mechanical failures and other issues. > Howeve…

I like this line of thinking, but I don't like the grand theory aspects of it.

Terms like "current political economy." Explaining everything, from poverty to environmental degradation, as a product of psycho-societal ideas like the "false idea of material abundance." It might work as a method of criticism, but I don't think it works the other way. We need to discover and develop new ways, and that doesn't tend to work from highly broad, abstract understandings down to the practical level.

I agree with most of the major touchpoints, but I think it could be written better.^ To hazard an inexact term, this needs to be far less ideological.

Take this paragraph:

We believe that new forms of cooperative and distributed property will emerge along these lines, a trend explained by Matt Cropp in his article, “The Coming Micro-Ownership Revolution.”6 Cropp’s article explains the direct link between P2P-driven declines in transaction costs and the shift to more distributed forms of ownership. The new corporate forms will no longer be based on shareholder-based ownership, but on common capital stock, held by the commoners themselves. These new entities constitute the “third commons” of “created materiality,” i.e., humankind’s productive machinery (in other words, capital), which joins the first two commons, the inherited material commons of nature and created “immaterial” cultural commons. The new forms of distributed individual property, which can be freely aggregated into collectives, emulate the free aggregation...

The author believes this because its a highly legible, direct application of the ideas and analysis. It has the disadvantage of being both limiting, and nonspecific. Hard to use as a formula, and easy to use for rejection.

I'm totally on board with OSS/Linux & Wikimedia as existence proofs. I would also add the WWW. OSS and its ecosystems are a rich set of smaller examples. I think lichess makes a great example, somewhat similar to wikimedia. Note that Jimmy Wales is more of a capitalist/libertarian, in his ideals. He would (I assume) be totally off put by this article's take. Thibault Duplessis, Lichess' founder, describes himself as a french communist. CVince Serf is just a dude. TimBL is more of a moderate pragmatist. Good look finding a take on "contemporary capitalism" that appeals to all three.

Why carry all this unnecessary baggage.

^More practical, convincing to the unconvinced, more room to graft on other ideas, less combative, less offensive to pre-xistsing political identities....

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the interesting innovations happen on publicly funded research. Whether it’s your RNA vaccine https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-d... or your phones touch screen, or your siri voice assistant or your uber gps taxi

> Most of the interesting innovations happen on publicly funded research Excluding airplanes, jet engines, rockets, transistors, git, etc.

Rockets were publicly funded research. A lot of airplane research was publicly funded.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#45

> A few decades ago, any given farmer often had the skills and tools needed to quickly make repairs if their machinery broke down. These days, however, it’s not so straightforward. Most modern farm equipment is technologically advanced, containing computers and sensors that collect and transmit data. As a result, specific software tools are typically necessary to address mechanical failures and other issues. > Howeve…

Are the technological advancements in tractors really worth it? Does anyone have any stats on this? I imagine tractors two decades ago did the job about the same. Is adding a whole bunch of chips to something for a very minor increase in efficiency worth losing the ability to repair it easily. If it is anything like cars, then I would think the technology increases chance of failure and actually just increases the co…

Tractors and farming in general have dramatically changed throughout the last 20 years or so. They've become much bigger in size (and thereby more efficient), they're mostly self-driving once in the field and control now the whole operation very precisely down to centimeter accuracy e.g. for fertilizer application.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#46
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the interesting innovations happen on publicly funded research Excluding airplanes, jet engines, rockets, transistors, git, etc.

Rockets were publicly funded research. A lot of airplane research was publicly funded.

Goddard was not publicly funded.

The Langley prototype fell into the Potomac like a sack of wet cement, and cost 20 times in government funding what the Wrights spent on their entire R+D program. Langley clearly had not solved any of the problems necessary for controlled, powered flight.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#47
post #26

Background: grew up in farming communities, live in a farming community, almost everyone around us farms. Repairable tractors would be a huge boon. I wish to anyone listening that Deere, New Holland, Valtra, Fendt and co would produce properly repairable, open heavy hardware. Deere is the worst in this, but the rest of the industry isn't anywhere near as good as it should be. There's a reason you see old Defenders, F…

Probably a naive question, but arent new Kubota tractors more repairable than say, a John Deere? Or are they just as bad?

It's a sliding scale. There's better and worse, but no-one's making open software systems which are generally available to be evaluated, updated and fixed, and the hardware side isn't much better.

Sure, a Kubota, Belarus, or JCB is better than a Massey or John Deere, but none are as good as they should be.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#48

> A few decades ago, any given farmer often had the skills and tools needed to quickly make repairs if their machinery broke down. These days, however, it’s not so straightforward. Most modern farm equipment is technologically advanced, containing computers and sensors that collect and transmit data. As a result, specific software tools are typically necessary to address mechanical failures and other issues. > Howeve…

In fact, the pattern is that people don't want to spend a lot of money upfront and companies like sustained income.

So given the choice between a $50k tractor which cannot be repaired unless you pay a lot of money and an easy to repair $100k tractor, both farmers and manufacturers will chose the first option. Of course, farmers want an easy to repair $50k tractor, but manufacturers have to make money. And manufacturers want to sell $100k expensive-to-maintain tractors, but competition won't let them.

The system we have now, with all its flaws, is one that suits people the most. We can make laws when the free market doesn't work, for example, we could make $50k unmaintainable tractors illegal, which I think would be great, but it will piss off farmers who will need to pay $100k for their tractors and it will piss off manufacturers who will lose their steady income.

> Imagine today's high-tech world, without the capitalist intellectual property system.

No need to imagine, we have China, and before that, we had USSR. Not perfect examples, especially for China, but these are the real world alternatives to capitalism.

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#49
I just want to throw my 2¢ out there, as a mid-20's who went to a high-rural-population high school, there's an entire new generation of farmers who have a) accepted that Deere's need constant/regular service calls, and b) don't care to learn how to fix it (or older equipment) themselves. At the end of the day farming is just a business same as any other, it's the same reason why a lot of trucking companies lease their trucks or warehouses lease their forklifts, it's generally cheaper and less of a headache overall.

I've tried to make pleas with some of my old friends who've complained about the locked-down nature of their JD equipment, explaining that other companies like Kubota don't have that same limitation, but the branding is just too strong ("the Kubota might be cheaper to buy, and cheaper to run, and I can easily maintain it myself, but, it's not a John Deere" - actual quote from a SW Ontario farmer)

Re: Farmers Deserve the Right to Repair Their Tractors

#50
Old tractors are bringing top dollar at auctions (and have been for some time now). IMO, the same thing will happen with old cars/trucks some day. Now, they are mostly hobby cars for collectors and auto enthusiasts, but some day will be widely sought after due to more people wanting/needing to repair them.

Late 80s and early 90s Toyotas will be sold at a premium as will any/all old Ford F-150 trucks.

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