3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California • Hacker News Board

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#221

Post by fugfjj » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 12:38 AM UTC

kodah wrote: post #188

efraim wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Dogs are still animals and can be unpredictable. Which is precisely why they must be on a leash, always. Except in a fenced off area maybe.

There are a lot of places that put on their website or Google maps that they're dog friendly and allow off-leash or on-leash visits. So "always" is not even near correct here, it is on a dog owner (and other visitors) to determine whether the place they're visiting is dog-friendly and to what degree.

??? If youre in an off leash park do what ever you want. No one is arguing that.

Im annoyed at the leash-less dogs in parks where dogs aren't even allowed. Although they're the least of my problems, a neighbor has a couple of pet pigs.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#222

Post by fugfjj » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 12:45 AM UTC

_ktx2 wrote: post #190

fugfjj wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually like dogs. Id be honored to have my BF entrust his dog to me for a few days. But the onus is not on me to meet your pet half way, learn the species’ “tells” or pretend that there are no irresponsible owners. The onus is on you.

Yeah, sure, I mentioned tells because having more information is better. The onus is on me to protect my dog from sociopaths who bring guns to shoot random dogs that walk up to them (as a reminder, that is the situation we're discussing apart from your "defense of a child" scenario)

Your dog comes up and sniffs me, fine. Slobber sucks but whatever.

But if it yelps, barks, gets territorial, bares his teeth, etc, the sociopath (ie unable to behave properly in society) is the dog owner who cant keep the dog on a leech.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#223

Post by fallinghawks » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 1:03 AM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #217

cjensen wrote: post #106

I'm a birder, so some extra info... On dogs, training and leashes only matter a little. The problem is birds immediately identify a dog as a dangerous predator. They are far less bothered by humans. Birds pay more attention that we might realize. They identify potential threats from much farther away that we do. This leads to them being disturbed even when the casual rule-breaking dog walker thinks "I'm not doing any…

How do these birds exist in the wild if a single predator sighting causes them to abandon their eggs? Edit: I'm downvoted, so this is a legitimate question. How could it be that these birds have lasted when one predator causes the abandonment of 3000 eggs? Has no predator ever appeared on these islands?

It was more than just "a single predator sighting." The article says it was two drones and one of them crashed, which is a lot more dramatic. They didn't say how close the crash was to the nesting birds. And they didn't say how long the drones were flying around and how they were flying around before the birds decided to abandon. We don't know, perhaps they were buzzing the terns at a low altitude, or hovering for a long time in a way that looked like a falcon.

There's a big difference between a dangerous looking person passing you by on a busy street, and one that's standing on the sidewalk in front of your house, staring at your window for an hour.

Some birds are very neophobic. And some types of birds have less commitment to eggs than chicks -- a new nest and new eggs can be laid, but actual hatched chicks are much harder to abandon. Terns are very social, so a few abandoning their nests might easily lead to a mass exodus.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#224

Post by dang » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

ramphastidae wrote: post #219

dang wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you please not be a jerk in HN comments or otherwise break the site guidelines? It's not the first time you've done this, unfortunately, and we're really trying for something different here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Sure, sorry about that.

Appreciated!

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#225

Post by brandonmenc » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 1:13 AM UTC

fugfjj wrote: post #148

brandonmenc wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're also the type to get hostile and even violent if you say anything Or, they're the type who thinks everyone loves dogs and that you know their dog is just the sweetest thing ever. I live in Austin (which is ground zero for irresponsible dog owners) and I can't count the number of times some huge unleashed dog runs up on me out of nowhere, followed by their owner shouting "oh, he's really friendly!"

Ground zero is Buenos Aires. Ive been to Austin. Its nice. In sure you have some very annoying dog owners. I grew up in BsAs. The city is a sidewalk of dog shit you have to avoid stepping on.

I'm not talking about stray dogs.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#226

Post by smcl » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 1:37 AM UTC

brandur wrote: post #124

smcl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange you're getting so downvoted. While I am a dog owner (and therefore may have a bias) I don't think you've said anything wrong or even controversial. I've seen a lot of US-based people who cannot fathom the idea of a well-behaved dog being completely fine off-leash, so maybe this is why? I must say that in this sort of situation - an area near a nesting site - I absolutely agree a dog shouldn't be free to run a…

I'm going to hazard a guess as to why the downvotes are happening: There's a silent majority out there who are not happy with the way dog owners behave, which is very often badly. Most of the time they have no real power to do anything about it, but it's occasionally visible in places like this with karma systems. In my experience, most dog owners are like the user who started this thread. They do what they want, hav…

I'm not sure what to say. I guess if people are upset about dogs in the Bay Area (or somewhere else) then that's up to owners in that area to fix? I have no idea about dogs or dog owners in the USA, and presumably neither does user "diggan" who has also been commenting and getting downvoted to oblivion, but who nevertheless I have a feeling is a responsible dog owner. The thing we took issue with was the idea that dogs should at all times in be on the leash. IMO that's quite irresponsible (many need exercise) and counterproductive (a dog who is rarely exercised will probably be hyperactive when taken out). To me it just sounds like a few people have had some experiences with bad dog owners, but instead of thinking "Wow that guy was an asshole" you're presuming "all dog owners are assholes" which is ... weird.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#227

Post by smcl » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

alentist wrote: post #149

blamazon wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we’re already past cliches and stereotypes when talking of all dog owners who walk without a leash! I’m from USA. On the same page with you here about the collectivist vs individual freedom. As you noted it’s a tragedy of the commons—-because unquestioned individual freedom is prized so heavily in USA, some dog owners take advantage of it without appropriate precaution, and those people tend to do things like…

> As you noted it’s a tragedy of the commons—-because unquestioned individual freedom is prized so heavily in USA, some dog owners take advantage of it without appropriate precaution, and those people tend to do things like call the police on black people This passage doesn't make sense. It's a word salad.

Wait it's not actually word salad, it makes sense. I was out and about and wasn't able to spend time reading it before dashing off my flippant jokey reply below, so I only read it now. So despite the Saturday Spliff, blamazon is pretty coherent. Can you describe what doesn't make sense to you?

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#228

Post by lumberingjack » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #189

I am guessing that drones are to birds what a Martian invasion would be to us - suddenly a new species has arrived and is persistent - it can go everywhere birds can go, it has spare energy enough to make aggressive noises constantly and it completely ignores any aggressive actions and attacks made to drive the drone off. It has arrived and taken over the territory completely - so abandon the area. My problem is if m…

Domesticated cats have completely eradicated several United States bird species nobody called for eradication of cats

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#229

Post by wholinator2 » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:16 AM UTC

bradleyjg wrote: post #138

EB66 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I point out that your generation is also destroying the planet. No, not quite. You stated "no one decided [to harm the environment]". My reply sought to explain how that is incorrect. > You acknowledge that—-taking the position that we all are sinners to a greater or lesser extent. Again, not quite. "We are all sinners" is very different from 'humans have made decisions to harm the environment for a long time'. Tho…

> In this thread, I'm contributing in a tiny way by dispelling the notion that "no one decided [to harm the environment]". As I stated above: If we ever want to turn the tide on global environmental destruction, then it is imperative that we as a society not diminish individual responsibility for the impact of one's decisions and actions. On the contrary preaching at people to change their sinful ways will never work…

To play the advocate, I will state that this is a conversational thread, where people talk about things. So it's no surprise that you see someone talking about a problem and not inventing a solution where the selected medium supports only the former.

Invention is sometimes a lonely and quiet endeavor, conversation is much the antithesis.

Re: 3,000 eggs abandoned after drone scares birds in California

#230

Post by thatguy0900 » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 2:22 AM UTC

fallinghawks wrote: post #223

thatguy0900 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do these birds exist in the wild if a single predator sighting causes them to abandon their eggs? Edit: I'm downvoted, so this is a legitimate question. How could it be that these birds have lasted when one predator causes the abandonment of 3000 eggs? Has no predator ever appeared on these islands?

It was more than just "a single predator sighting." The article says it was two drones and one of them crashed, which is a lot more dramatic. They didn't say how close the crash was to the nesting birds. And they didn't say how long the drones were flying around and how they were flying around before the birds decided to abandon. We don't know, perhaps they were buzzing the terns at a low altitude, or hovering for a…

Admittedly the drone crashing is more than a sighting, but it still stands that that is less than what a real predator would do. I just cant imagine these birds surviving while they abandon all that en mass every time a falcon attacks them. Seems like there has to be more to this story