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There are no results for tank man

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Re: There are no results for tank man

#481

Post by xdennis »

lilyball wrote: post #315
rvz wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right of course is. Yet 'another accident' on the anniversary of the crackdowns of the Tiananmen Square protests. /s

I’m not sure what you’re trying to imply. The fact that it’s the anniversary would easily explain why they’re making sure it’s censored properly in China, the human error is that it’s being censored outside of China.

When they stopped banning all results, the ones that showed up were just random people and tanks. This is clearly intentional. Maybe they're just testing the waters. If people give them a pass ("ItS jUst A SMalL ooPsie"), they'll accidentally ban more things. Anti-CCP games are already banned and Hollywood and sports are already kowtowing to CCP demands.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#482

Post by saagarjha »

jedberg wrote: post #429
Sebb767 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They focus on using propaganda to control individuals and then let those people make a mess of social media. There was an interesting report in German TV, where they analyzed a paper looking for bot patterns in Twitter. That paper named some offending accounts, so what they did was PM one - and it turned out that it simply belonged to a pensioner with strong political opinions and a lot of free time. Interesting to…

> If I may ask, where did you encounter so much heavy moderation? A couple places. The one that bothered me most was that titles would get changed without asking or notification to the poster. Sometimes they would get changed to something I didn't think made sense, and then I looked like I had done that, since there was no indication that it was changed. I guess I'm still not a huge fan when it happens to me, but I s…

> Also if you make a comment that gets a ton of votes but is perceived as off-topic, they will put a flag on your comment that makes it fall in the rankings. So based on the points and time it should be up at the top, but instead will be near the bottom, sometimes under the comments with negative scores.

This one is interesting to me, because I have emailed the moderators to do exactly this for highly upvoted comments I feel take the discussion into what I feel are the wrong places. I can understand that for a new commenter such tangents might be novel, but for someone who’s been around here for a while I am curious if you oppose such actions for the nth time that someone drags “here’s my article about new C++ feature” into “honestly C++ just keeps adding too many things, discuss”.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#483

Post by jacob019 »

dang wrote: post #72
kian wrote: post #45

@dang, I think we need an explanation for why Tank Man-related content on Hacker News has been disappearing all day. I usually trust HN to be a bastion of free speech, and if there isn't some kind of proportionate response here, I don't believe myself or many others here will be able to see it that way going forward. EDIT: Thank you for your response, dang. Hacker News is a special place, which is why we have respond…

This post is on the front page right now (edit: and now also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27396783 ) - that's the opposite of "disappearing". I'd have to see links to the other ones. Here's one tip for you guys, from years-long, world-weary experience: if you're coming up with sensational explanations in breathless excitement, it's almost certainly untrue. Edit: ok, here's what happened. Users flagged https:/…

This guy gets it. So rational and reasonable. The only true authority is knowledge, respect.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#484

Post by dang »

xdennis wrote: post #472
dang wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please keep nationalistic attacks off this forum. You have no idea the sort of pressure that users with minority perspectives because of their national/ethnic backgrounds are under on this majority-Western forum. People have literally been hounded off this site after getting attacked for this. Is that the kind of community you, or any of us, want to be part of? Of course it is not. Therefore, don't include swipes lik…

The free world is under attack. We could seriously lose many of our freedoms. It's not racist to be suspicious of CCP sympathizers who are PRC nationals any more than it was racist to be suspicious of communist-sympathizing Russians during the cold war.

Ok, but that's not what the GP comment said.

Believe me, I'm just as uninterested in losing freedoms as you are. I don't believe, however, that the feeling of being "under attack" is very conducive to this cause. People who feel they are under attack are likely to give up their freedoms in exchange for safety, or rather for a false feeling of safety. Indeed they will do it eagerly, and this can be used to justify anything. Even if it's something you personally would never support, that doesn't matter because it will be effectively exploited by others who do. So if we want a free society we should all be careful about how we handle the language, thoughts, and feelings of under-attackness.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#486

Post by kragen »

joemi wrote: post #475
kragen wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely do not support excluding or discriminating against Chinese users, a practice which is a big problem on HN. I'm just saying that, just as a significant subset of USA users are likely to flag posts that encourage people to burn American flags or claim that the USA is a "white-supremacist state", and a significant subset of Muslim users are likely to flag posts that criticize Muhammad, there's a significant…

Fair points, I think, to a degree. Mind you, I wasn't trying to accuse you of being racist. I purposefully phrased my comment the way I did not to be obtuse but to allow for the fact that coming across as racist may not have been your intention. I still think the way you phrased in the comment I replied to had the issue I mentioned.

I agree, and I appreciate it.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#487

Post by alephnan »

jbay808 wrote: post #468
ufmace wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically everyone else in Asia hates their guts due to their conduct in WWII.

That's really not true. Taiwan, for example, has widespread pro-Japanese sentiment. Indonesia, Thailand, the Philippines, and Vietnam also have warm relations with Japan. On the other hand, Mainland China and both North and South Korea continue to have a dominant anti-Japanese sentiment. A cynical observer might suggest that the ability of a nation's public to forgive past grievances correlates closely with how much…

> both North and South Korea continue to have a dominant anti-Japanese sentiment

I've learned it's extremely difficult to find Samsung products on the shelves in Japan. The conglomerates in East Asian are intertwined with political influence.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#488

Post by anthony_romeo »

crazygringo wrote: post #106
dang wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is on the front page right now (edit: and now also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27396783 ) - that's the opposite of "disappearing". I'd have to see links to the other ones. Here's one tip for you guys, from years-long, world-weary experience: if you're coming up with sensational explanations in breathless excitement, it's almost certainly untrue. Edit: ok, here's what happened. Users flagged https:/…

I don't doubt posts are flagged by users as opposed to moderation. But at the same time, it also seems like flagging can be too easily abused, and can lead to accusations of censorship and distrust. (Though I've certainly seen it work well in cases, especially for false/defamatory articles.) But it really does seem like we're at the point where longstanding users need to also be able to vouch for flagged stories, or…

On the 'vouch' option, this seems helpful. However, at some point one just accidentally creates a tier of "Super Upvotes" and "Super Downvotes". Trying to establish a reasonable heuristic/estimate/algorithm/whatever to identify who is or not a 'trustworthy user' worthy of the "vouch" permission might produce an interesting paper or blog post, but I doubt it'd help to increase transparency in real life, especially if there is a need for judgement-calls.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#489

Post by ghjjuo »

dang wrote: post #396
heavyset_go wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern censorship relies on using online communities' reporting, flagging and moderating systems to the censor's advantage.

No doubt that's true but if you're saying something specific about HN, I'd like to know what it is. Also, the word 'censorship' is too vague now. People just use it about whatever they disagree with. So if you have a specific question, it would also be good to use more precise language. You guys need to realize that you have a trump card (can I say that? or too soon?) that users of other platforms don't have: direct…

Why not automatically punish users that abuse flagging to censor stories (e.g. users start with 100%, each flagging that’s removed decrease their flag-weight with 50%, so 3 wrong flags means 100->50->25-12.5%, and similarly, correct flags increase by 50%, and stories where mods haven’t accepted/rejected the flag will have no impact)? This way good actors that flag blog-spam and whatnot will not be impacted, whereas bad actors/nationalists will quickly lose their ability to abuse this moderation/censorship tool (which is clearly being abused to a degree where your manual intervention, if any, doesn’t cut it).

Why even allow flagging to influence a submission’s ranking without mod intervention in the first place? Spammy links won’t reach the frontpage anyway (although they sometimes stay on Show HN for a while, so can make special exceptions for Show/Ask submissions).

And how about if a user flag a post, then you might consider making the post completely inaccessible to said user (and if they posted a comment in the submission then set their flag weight to 0 for said submission)? After all, good actors will have no interest in engaging in the submissions they flagged, whereas bad actors will want to attack the submission from all angles (flag submission, downvote comments, post own comments).

Re: There are no results for tank man

#490

Post by dang »

tolbish wrote: post #419
dang wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I only found out about it from the comment belter linked to. FWIW I think (god help us) fshbbdssbbgdd's explanation sounds plausible. I had a similar instinctive response but not as well thought through. We have banned people in a few cases for serious $BigCo astroturfing but there's always a grey area in the Venn diagram around "PR operation" and "overzealous fan". You can't tell those apart without a smoking gu…

I appreciate the work you do for the tech community. I think social media (sorry for calling this site that) vote manipulation detection will be one of the defining problems of the decade.

Eventually we probably need to figure out how to make the content robust even under vote manipulation. We're still far from that but I think it's...at least not out of the question. We're still at the very early stage of learning what's possible through community and culture (online, I mean).
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