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There are no results for tank man

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Re: There are no results for tank man

#441

Post by rhizome »

yongjik wrote: post #271
crazygringo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt posts are flagged by users as opposed to moderation. But at the same time, it also seems like flagging can be too easily abused, and can lead to accusations of censorship and distrust. (Though I've certainly seen it work well in cases, especially for false/defamatory articles.) But it really does seem like we're at the point where longstanding users need to also be able to vouch for flagged stories, or…

But flagging works most of the time. There are just too many submissions that result in utterly predictable and boring comments. I myself succumbed to the temptation many times, and left tons of comments when it came to, say, Trump's latest antics. Frankly HN will be (marginally) better if someone erased every comment of mine in any thread that mentions Trump. Without user flagging HN will be unusable.

>Frankly HN will be (marginally) better if someone erased every comment of mine in any thread that mentions Trump.

Or you could do what I did: something unknown that resulted in years of being limited to about 4 replies a day.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#442

Post by foxhop »

Sebb767 wrote: post #422
rllearneratwork wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

neither did I - not using DDG again. Back to Google :(

I don't think going back to Google because DDG is not large enough to have its own fully independent index is really the right play. Given their reputation and usually lax attitude towards censoring, I'd say this akin to a supply chain attack, not active censoring.

Agreed, I bet as users of ddg we could press the team at duckduckgo to prioritize a fix for this failure mode of censorship.

Maybe they can somehow detect censorship real-time and have their own hot image cache for a certain sized corpus.

This is a fun problem for them to solve for us now that it's a failure mode they didn't fully appreciate until now. They are a search engine aggregator, they need another feed for internet images. This is an engineering problem to do cheaply centrally or distributed.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#444

Post by a1369209993 »

floatingatoll wrote: post #421
GauntletWizard wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Why haven't those users been banned, and the article restored? Dang is actually quite effective as and administrator, but this seems pretty clear-cut abuse of the flagging system. I don't expect perfection, dang might have not been aware of it yet, but I do expect that some action will be taken on hot-button topics when surfaced.

dang says elsethread, paraphrased, 'we evaluated that flagged post and figured it was probably legitimately flagged, but after users contacted us^ to say it should be unflagged, so we listened to them and unflagged it'. Good intentions often lead to bad outcomes. The mods have the best possible (and still imperfect) judgement of all of us, and they misread the circumstances, same as those users who flagged it. So the…

> maybe they didn't realize the Contact link exists or reaches the mods!

Actually, the Contact link doesn't exist or reach the mods:

  $ dig mx ycombinator.com
  [...]
  ycombinator.com.299 IN MX 10 aspmx.l.google.com.
  [...]
  $ telnet aspmx.l.google.com 25
  Trying 142.250.141.27...
  [wait a minute or two]
  HELO example.com [typed]
  [wait a minute or two]
  ^C
(The other MX results behave similarly.)

Re: There are no results for tank man

#445

Post by dalbasal »

ddlatham wrote: post #252
johnfernow wrote: post #190

Since these pages will likely be updated, here are the archived links as proof of this happening: https://web.archive.org/web/20210604192821/https://www.bing.... https://web.archive.org/web/20210604180506/https://images.se... https://web.archive.org/web/20210604194355/https://www.ecosi... https://web.archive.org/web/20210604194336/https://search.ao... Some people probably think "nobody uses Bing", but Bing powers a l…

Looks like it has now been updated and returns images of various tanks and male athletes, but still no images of what seems most relevant to the phrase - the iconic Tiananmen Square photograph that goes by that name.

This is where it gets distressing.

I'm now seeing tank man, it's image number 27... recently posted news article.

When a page returns "no results," something is obviously being banned or censored... at least we know. If the action is less explicit, we can't really know for sure what's happening. How do you distinguish tank man losing prominence from the millions of people complaining that their posts, sites or whatnot aren't receiving a fair amount of exposure?

Re: There are no results for tank man

#447

Post by dalbasal »

drak0n1c wrote: post #129
ufmace wrote: post #61

The CCP seems to be quite good at practical censorship. They have a history of this - they know the Great Firewall isn't perfect, and don't seem to make a tremendous effort to plug every single hole or find and lock up everyone trying to circumvent it. They know that controlling what most people see most of the time is good enough. They also know that not making too much clear direct effort against those trying to by…

In related corporate censorship, the Top Gun remake altered the physical leather jacket worn by Tom Cruise to remove the flags of Taiwan and Japan. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/top-gun-...

This is the real powerful actual vector.

Hollywood flicks and bad 80s pop/rock were (arguably) a genuinely massive part of the Soviet Union's decline. Those things make culture.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#448

Post by TchoBeer »

BadOakOx wrote: post #389
TchoBeer wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol why Japan

They are not really friends since https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Sino-Japanese_War

Yeah but why are they censoring any mention of the country. Is Japan's existence controversial or something.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#449

Post by mr_toad »

dang wrote: post #72
kian wrote: post #45

@dang, I think we need an explanation for why Tank Man-related content on Hacker News has been disappearing all day. I usually trust HN to be a bastion of free speech, and if there isn't some kind of proportionate response here, I don't believe myself or many others here will be able to see it that way going forward. EDIT: Thank you for your response, dang. Hacker News is a special place, which is why we have respond…

This post is on the front page right now (edit: and now also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27396783 ) - that's the opposite of "disappearing". I'd have to see links to the other ones. Here's one tip for you guys, from years-long, world-weary experience: if you're coming up with sensational explanations in breathless excitement, it's almost certainly untrue. Edit: ok, here's what happened. Users flagged https:/…

> latest $outrage

Or the latest minor symptom of a chronic illness.

This wouldn’t have happened, accidentally or not, if it wasn’t for the continuing and constant bullying of the Chinese government, and the willingness of international actors to kowtow to it.

Re: There are no results for tank man

#450

Post by dalbasal »

partiallypro wrote: post #274
iso1631 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or it could have been a normal employee that ticked the "censor everywhere" box rather than "censor china"

But why would it happen today? The term is likely censored year round in China, why would it suddenly go from China to global?

The way chinese censorship works is... erm.. innovative.

There isn't an actual censor who approves stuff, or a list of things that are censored. Companies are expected to reason about it themselves. More broadly, a lot of things are more/less sensitive at particular points in time.

This does suggest that stuff was happening at msft, in anticipation of heightened sensitivity because of the 30 year anniversary.

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