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An Unbelievable Demo

brendangregg.com

31–40 of 478 posts

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#32
post #12

Good story; I do find the “Australians are just the little guys” narrative a bit frustrating and a self-fulfilling prophecy though.

Agree it's cringe. The whole "little guy punching above his weight" thing is even worse in NZ.

Can you explain? Is "little guy punching aboce his weight" applied to the country level? It is the first time I hear it in connection to NZ or AUS.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#33

Were there any legal repercussions? Was the employee fired? Were you as calm about this at the time as you seem now?... I would be furious! EDIT: For some reason I assumed OP was the author. Someone with a twitter account should ping him and get him over here to participate in discussion.

I was in shock, and a bit furious at being ripped off, but didn't feel there was a lot I could do about it. I edited this bit out (I was trimming the post):

"You might wonder why I didn't talk about this first case publicly at the time. I'd already informed them of the problem privately and how to fix it, so there wasn't more to say. Also, Sun was the number one employer in town, and to be publicly critical could be career ending."

I don't know what happened to the US developer. But I didn't think it made sense to burn bridges with Sun about it. I was more worried about giving people a bad experience with DTrace by running older versions of my software.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#35
Ok, maybe i'm too old or experienced with these type of things to really enjoy this article. The author might honestly be sincere as he wrote this but I felt it was a bit overblown and coming from negative feelings of being brushed off and rightfully so being upset that his code was stolen. It could just be there are some cultural misunderstandings as well.

He mentioned this "VIP" is a "Developer and dtrace expert". But reading that and the other details, I think this is probably not the reality and maybe was communicated incorrectly to him. I really doubt this guy was a "VIP" as he says.

My guess is this "VIP" was actually a pretty normal member on the dtrace project, could be a little senior and got the opportunity to go around and talk about it. I am sure they had a team somewhere who put together most of the software, maybe he was involved a little bit, but probably he was just as confused as everyone else about using that open source software - he probably knew enough to teach it, and how it worked, but so many people work on these type of projects, unless they sent the lead engineer he probably didn't know it deeply except enough to evangelize and teach how it works.

He mentions about being slighted by this guy a lot, saying things like "He wasn't impressed", "gave me a look like he didn't really believe me" etc. This might be true, but i suspect it's coming from his negative interpretation of the situation. This guy just traveled all the way around the world, was super exhausted, was possibly honestly confused what's going on - i certainly have been in that situation before.

The author also mentions he felt it odd that he (the author) was producing more dtrace tools than Sun was. This almost sounds a bit like indirect boasting. Large companies are slow. A dedicated passionate developer who is working alone or with a small team will always run laps around huge companies. This isn't odd at all. Companies often get distracted, can't focus on what's important, or decide not to do what is important for a product due to other business reasons.

In fact, as he found out, some engineer somewhere just ripped his stuff cause it was faster and easier for them to do it. Sun's team was not professional at all, even possibly breaking the law, which I think is the point of the article but the descriptions of the Dtrace guy who's job was to show Dtrace around the world lessened my enjoyment of the article.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#36
post #17

As much as I think RMS himself is an utter embarrassment of a human being, stories like this are why I also believe the GPL is one of the most important contributions to computing, ever. MIT/BSD-style licenses are practically begging large billion-dollar corporations to rip off your work wholesale and use it to generate profits while contributing only the occasional patch or two. I used to see this phenomenon on HN,…

I think the GPL and FSF etc lost momentum with their GPLv3 push. I know that was the case for me. I really liked GPL (v2). Then GPLv3 came out and I was like huh? After that I became much more open to the lighter versions of things MIT / BSD. GPLv3 is not really workable in terms of preserving developer freedom to do what they want with code (as long as they share their code back). Obviously the powers that be disagr…

The irony is the GPLv3 does more to address some of the problems we have with open source than most other licenses, but was rejected by many due to a lack of concern for these issues.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree it's cringe. The whole "little guy punching above his weight" thing is even worse in NZ.

Why do you find it cringe? In NZ I think it's even more true than Australia. It's a tiny, isolated country with a small population that isn't the hub of anything really. Aussie and NZ compared to the US are completely different worlds in my eyes. (I'm a Kiwi btw)

See, at least you realize you are a tiny country with a small population and the ego adapted to that.

I am French and we are a country with a great past - but not looking ahead. We still assume that we radiate across the world and that our voice counts.

It does not, and this has to be clear. There are countries that can influence events, but this is not ours.

A typical example is how angry we were after the recent pirate act of Lukashenko (Belarus forced a EU plane flying form one EU country to another to land when above their territory to arrest an opponent of theirs). Our president said that there would be consequences and there are no consequences.

This is not to spit on my contry but sometimes egos are much bigger than the reality. We are in good company there.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#38
post #17

As much as I think RMS himself is an utter embarrassment of a human being, stories like this are why I also believe the GPL is one of the most important contributions to computing, ever. MIT/BSD-style licenses are practically begging large billion-dollar corporations to rip off your work wholesale and use it to generate profits while contributing only the occasional patch or two. I used to see this phenomenon on HN,…

In this specific case, the files were under the CDDL, which is copyleft. The only thing that Sun did that was not allowed by the license was to remove the copyright notice. Had the scripts been under GPL, nothing would have been different. Anyone can sell GPL software, as long as they allow access to the source code and allow further motification and redistribution.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#39

Ok, maybe i'm too old or experienced with these type of things to really enjoy this article. The author might honestly be sincere as he wrote this but I felt it was a bit overblown and coming from negative feelings of being brushed off and rightfully so being upset that his code was stolen. It could just be there are some cultural misunderstandings as well. He mentioned this "VIP" is a "Developer and dtrace expert".…

Brendan Gregg has a lot of clout. Besides that, he did eventually work at Sun proper, and later Joyent. I have no reason not to believe his account.

Re: An Unbelievable Demo

#40
post #6

Can someone elaborate on why he takes a weird detour in the middle of the post to discourage forks? Is there some particular issue with supporting bpf tooling forks? As someone who has spent a lot of time in open source, forks are not a problem, they are indicative of a problem. Don’t cry when people fork and go a different direction, try to figure out why and see if you’re willing to change the project to accommodat…

The criticism is of forks that are done in order to re-brand and re-sell a project, and then never contribute anything back to the original, and likely, never pull improvements from the originally forked project (which can include critical bug fixes) after that.
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