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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#471

Post by matzab »

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

Honestly, reading comments like these and articles like the OP has convinced me that we, as humans, will not at all be prepared for the next pandemic. And the one after that.

These viruses and their potential recombinations are out there, we don't need some virologist to go out and maybe catch it. People will catch them, we'll just know even less about them when the next pandemic starts.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#472

Post by dang »

peter422 wrote: post #21
bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

I’ve never heard of 2-3 people getting sick before in a large organization. That sounds like a smoking gun.

Please read and follow the site guidelines. They include:

"Don't be snarky."

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

They apply regardless of how wrong anyone else is or you feel they are.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#473

Post by ridaj »

TheBigSalad wrote: post #377
bglazer wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm quite astounded and confused at the sudden shift in discourse towards assuming that the lab leak theory must be true. It's not so much the theory itself that's surprising. Lab leak remains plausible but less probable then natural origins. The sudden shift is just baffling to me though. This huge new furor is due to anonymous CIA sources saying three people got sick? That's extremely tenuous evidence, as you state…

What makes you think it's less probable than natural origins? The wet market has probably been there for 1,000 years and this hasn't happened. Compared to the virus appearing in one of 3 labs in the world that would be studying it.

The Wuhan wet market episode, in retrospect, was almost certainly a superspreading event rather than a patient zero situation. The virus's effects are so variable from person to person (lots of asymptomatic carriers, people who just get a little cold, symptoms undistinguishable from the flu) that it was almost certainly already circulating in Wuhan unnoticed, until it became big enough to be hard not to notice.

Consider for example what happened in the US, in Washington state at the beginning of the pandemic. The first local community transmissions were detected weeks after they had already started happening, even though there was already a relatively high degree of alertness. Without testing, it wouldn't have been detected at all until a similar superspreading event finally took place.

The very fact that miners got sick a few years ago makes it also sound likely, based on Wuhan's history and based on the virus's characteristics, that bat-to-human transmission took place in similar circumstances as the miners' a few weeks or months before the Wuhan wet market event, had some low-key human-to-human transmission simmering in the community which people wrote off as the flu (at worse), until that one superspreading event.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#474

Post by extratinypp »

dang wrote: post #459
deugo wrote: post #452

This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored. They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipu…

What you did in this thread (posting dozens of copies of the same comment) was vandalism. I've banned the account. You needn't have wondered why your comment was flagged if you had read the site guidelines before posting it. The users who flagged it were obviously correct to do so. What you did after that was beyond the pale. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> The users who flagged it were obviously correct

CCP master! You are being naive and your site is abused. But I'll stop. Do check how fast the flags were. This was scripted. Also check the IPs for VPN usage and entropy between the downvotes.

Taiwan is a country. Dare say it?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#476

Post by dillondoyle »

actuator wrote: post #151
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how I remember the narrative. It was split in two. 1. Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic by those who did not simply agree with anything he said. 2. The claim that it originated in the Wuhan lab was viewed as unlikely, and there was (is) an alternative biological origin story which at the time seemed credible and more likely.

> Calling it "the china virus", as the former president was wont to do, was labelled racist/bigoted/nationalistic While the racist violence that happened was deplorable, it is entirely amusing to me that we are fine with calling it UK/Brazil/South African/Indian variant but not call it the China virus/flu. The same publications like Guardian which did not use the term China virus/flu because it was considered racist…

It's not the name.

It's the WAY Trump et al said it + their political motivations & bias. Context is very important.

"ChiNe A", almost the verbal version of slanting your eyes with your fingers.

And the more obvious 'kung flu.'

For what it's worth I've read that there has been attempts to reframe virus names from using state names as to not cast blame (though 'blame' is muddled in this case if it was leaked or worse GOF->leak).

"Spanish Flu" for instance likely didn't even originate in Spain

Fair point on the media, since variants do have actual scientific names. But I don't think the context there is the same. But they should be using consistent scientific names imho we knew H1N1 we can do that again.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#477

Post by generalizations »

justicezyx wrote: post #397
SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does no one else remember the videos out of China with people laying dead in the streets, falling over as they walked, convulsing behind the steering wheels of cars? Who paid for all that acting, scenes, and filming and then have it presented as “news”? CCP owns Hong Kong, that was over in 1997, the only surprising thing about HK is that China waited this long to make it better known. Now... The country of Taiwan on…

> Does no one else remember the videos out of China with people laying dead in the streets, falling over as they walked, convulsing behind the steering wheels of cars? Could you provide a link? I never saw such video on YouTube.

I can confirm the videos existed. Saw them when they were posted, back in Jan 2020. They were never on youtube, though, that I'm aware of.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#478

Post by JesseMReeves »

um_ya wrote: post #314
tootie wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fauci is clearly dismissing the notion that it was engineered. He says pretty clearly that if a natural virus escaped the lab it would still be a natural virus and hence not a useful topic when it comes to treating it. I don't think he ever said it wasn't possible just that there's no reason to believe it. And it's understandably not his primary concern to figure out.

I think this whole thing is a great example of why you don't ban alternative viewpoints, even if considered "conspiracy theories". Zerohedge was reporting this early on, and Twitter banned them for "misinformation".

That newspaper scene from Men in Black. I’ve relived it a number of times over the past year particularly.

Local mainstream “fact checkers” have even called Covid-19 a “right-wing conspiracy theory” in early 2020.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#479

Post by nradov »

tokipin wrote: post #451
mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

I think people are missing the obvious problem with Trump from the perspective of the news media, which is that his messages often had two meanings. The literal meaning, and the pouring gasoline on racial tensions meaning. Why would news organizations publish unsubstantiated conspiracy theories that were just more racial bait? Trump doesn't get points for guessing or throwing baseless accusations any more than anyone…

Early in the pandemic Trump was given secret intelligence briefings which indicated that the lab leak theory was a real possibility.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#480

Post by badmadrad »

djkivi wrote: post #412

What a difference a year makes? https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/why-scientists-belie...

This is an example of "anything Trump says I must believe the opposite" logic that has plagued our country for the last 5 years.
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