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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#461

Post by TheBigSalad »

jbuhbjlnjbn wrote: post #112
generalizations wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nearly made the same comment myself. It feels vindicating to watch all this unfold. How many times now has 4chan been right about the virus, and the media wrong? - 4chan saw the pandemic coming in January 2020, and predicted it would be big - 4chan knew it wasn't 'just another flu' in March 2020, when the media was downplaying it - 4chan figured out the virus is transmitted via areosol, not just particulate - 4chan w…

Not to tout my own horn, but it really doesn't take a genius to put two and two together in these instances. I never read 4chan or many opinions in genral, but I knew all of those points (minus the vitamin D) on my own. The quote of 'knew a picosecond after he heard' resonated with me, because my intuition - as a laymen - was exactly the same. The moment I heard of the wuhan institute, I basically was pretty sure wha…

I'm with you. What are the odds it naturally occurred literally right next to the lab studying coronaviruses? I'm not saying it didn't naturally occur, but that can't be the first suspect. This is like ignoring the husband in the investigation into his wife's murder.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#462

Post by rebuilder »

bglazer wrote: post #323
tmp404 wrote: post #155

While this article is quite illuminating on the political side of the lab leak theory, on the evidence side it's mostly a rehash of some long-standing speculations. The only recent evidence it contains is the fact that 3 researchers from WIV sought hospital care back in autumn of 2019 with symptoms similar to COVID. However, this piece of evidence is hardly consequential without further details: - First, most common…

I'm quite astounded and confused at the sudden shift in discourse towards assuming that the lab leak theory must be true. It's not so much the theory itself that's surprising. Lab leak remains plausible but less probable then natural origins. The sudden shift is just baffling to me though. This huge new furor is due to anonymous CIA sources saying three people got sick? That's extremely tenuous evidence, as you state…

Maybe the Biden administration has concluded that it's possible there may have been a lab leak. It would be damaging to them if they did nothing and ended up unable to conclusively prove there was no lab leak, because Trump has been banging on that drum for a long time now.

So, they don't really have much choice in this. They have to convincingly look like they're pushing to find the truth, or they'd be handing ammunition to the Trumpists.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#463

Post by generalizations »

chii wrote: post #439
chasd00 wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan can be unsettlingly resourceful sometimes. Remember when they identified the location of a terrorist training camp from some photos and quite literally called in an air strike?

> 4chan can be unsettlingly resourceful sometimes. what's what the internet used to be like. These days, only a few places are left that have this sort of level of community and capability.

There's just a lot more noise, now. People like that are still around, they're just harder to find.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#464

Post by themacguffinman »

henearkr wrote: post #404
fragileone wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your point is here. That the Wuhan lab shouldn't be called out for likely causing a global pandemic? It's being done in a very fair and non-aggressive manner. I don't really see what other approach could be said to take into account this stereotype more.

To keep it simple: are there benefits of calling them out? Are you really just in search of scientific truth, and is this science useful in this context of present and maybe future crisis? My point is that actually it (the calling out) is done aggressively, and it was especially when Trump was president. And maybe China is afraid to be shamed and discredited on the international scene, which would delight geopolitica…

Developing effective preventive solutions require that you understand the problem. If the problem is a lab leak, then policies that address insufficient lab safety standards are warranted. Frankly, the Chinese government should feel ashamed and discredited if it was a lab leak under its responsibility. Any US involvement in the lab leak should be investigated and uncovered as well. China would have no qualms pointing fingers at the US if the roles were reversed, and they'd be right to do so. Being sensitive to shame has never been a reasonable excuse for covering up the truth. Coddling China is not only unjust, it damages our ability to prevent this from happening again.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#465

Post by draw_down »

corpMaverick wrote: post #139
mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

IMHO, we were in the middle of the problem. The important part to was to figure out how to get out of it. The investigation at that point would not be helpful as it may make cooperation more difficult. Even if the result is that is natural origin and it escaped from a Wet Market. It was China's responsibility and the whole world must make sure to force China to ban wet markets. But as I said before, it will come a ti…

Good grief.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#466

Post by extratinypp »

This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#468

Post by extratinypp »

lamontcg wrote: post #183
deugo wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. From the Fauci e-mails: People Fauci directly worked with seemed surprised and shocked to learn otherwise, and could not even instantly say if their funding had made it abroad. There are papers resulting from GoF research of concern at the WIV. There are grant proposals, which specify the exact modificati…

- There was GOF research done on US soil at UNC Chapel Hill which collaborated with WIV. They took a SARS-CoV-1 backbone and splied in a surface protein from another coronavirus and ran it through mice to produce a mouse coronavirus. - There's no papers out of WIV indicating GOF research > but you'll see through studying the records that it was the cover for military funding. You're offering a blatant conspiracy theo…

This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#469

Post by extratinypp »

lamontcg wrote: post #154
harryf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets worse - gain of function research was banned under Obama until the ban was lifted in 2017 under Trump - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... I can’t find sources for this right now but apparently Dr Anthony Fauci played a key role in getting the ban lifted. He’s also the head of the NIAID ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci ) which (apparently) is the ultimate source for…

They indirectly gave WIV funding to support research into Pig SARS -- Swine acute diarrhea syndrome coronavirus (SADS-CoV). There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. And giving China money to study diseases in pigs happening in China that are closely related to a human disease that we were worried about it (or maybe a close relative) spilling over…

This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it. It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely competent at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#470

Post by dang »

JPKab wrote: post #45
peter422 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve never heard of 2-3 people getting sick before in a large organization. That sounds like a smoking gun.

Several were HOSPITALIZED with a respiratory illness, in a lab studying bat viruses on humanized mice. The cognitive dissonance you are suffering is painful, I'm sure, but it's obviously clouding your judgment.

Crossing into personal attack is not allowed and will get you banned here, regardless of how wrong someone else is or you feel they are. We've had to warn you about this kind of thing before. I don't want to ban you, so please fix this.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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