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The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

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281–290 of 1001 posts

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#281

This is why people say "do your own research". Because trusting some other authority will end badly, just like this.

> "do your own research" How? I barely have enough time to do my day job. You think I have the time or expertise to research the origins of a virus? Where does it end? Do I grow my own food? Make my own clothes? Build my own car after mining ore, smelting it and doing a million other things?

Perhaps begin by entertaining ideas as possible until proven otherwise. No scientists ever provided conclusive proof the virus didn’t originate in a lab. If you were to look at what some scientists were saying such as the former director of the CDC you would hear explanations including evidence that suggested it probably did leak from a lab. But since the dawn of search engines, we’ve been suggesting that lazy people investigate and seek out the truth instead of clinging to dogma that validates their biases. Perhaps that will never change. I get it if you’re not interested in the actual truth, but that is exactly the problem. We as citizens who have dealt with this crisis deserve to know the truth. And by the way, an empowered and informed citizenry is what makes a nation strong across all metrics. If you only care about yourself I get it, make your money. But some of us still care about our country (whatever country we live in).

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When China started welding doors on high rises to keep people in, that was the signal to take it seriously-despite what the WHO was saying

They never welded people in, it was to funnel them through common exits where they could be disinfected.

That's not true. It's easy to find videos of men sealing doors shut in stairwells. That door they're sealing is the single door of the apartment.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#283
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other pertinent data point, how many epidemics have been positively traced to a lab leak since virology has been widely studied? The Wuhan lab was founded in the 1950s. You can say the likelihood that a virus would one day escape from one of these labs is pretty high. The likelihood that a given virus would be from a lab is very low. All of which brings us back to where we were at the start. It's plausible and possib…

There's no other credible explanation for the return of influenza H1N1 in 1976-7: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Russian_flu For an epidemic to occur, you need not just a lab leak, but a population sufficiently naive to the pathogen. H1N1 was displaced by H2N2 in the late 1950's pandemic, which in turn was displaced by H3N2 in the late 1960s pandemic. Thus it hit the cohort of people aged 25-6 or less who'd never…

That article doesn't support your argument. It just says it was suspected.

I found an NIH article that says the likelier origin is that the 1950 virus was used to produce a weakened live virus vaccine candidate that lead to the reemergence and not an accidental leak. It also concludes by saying there has never been a likely lab leak epidemic ever observed.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4542197/

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#284

4chan figured this out as early as March 2020: google "site:4plebs.org shi zhengli"

Nearly made the same comment myself. It feels vindicating to watch all this unfold. How many times now has 4chan been right about the virus, and the media wrong? - 4chan saw the pandemic coming in January 2020, and predicted it would be big - 4chan knew it wasn't 'just another flu' in March 2020, when the media was downplaying it - 4chan figured out the virus is transmitted via areosol, not just particulate - 4chan w…

4chan can be unsettlingly resourceful sometimes. Remember when they identified the location of a terrorist training camp from some photos and quite literally called in an air strike?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#285

> Wade devoted a full section to the “furin cleavage site,” a distinctive segment of SARS-CoV-2’s genetic code that makes the virus more infectious by allowing it to efficiently enter human cells. > Within the scientific community, one thing leapt off the page. Wade quoted one of the world’s most famous microbiologists, Dr. David Baltimore, saying that he believed the furin cleavage site “was the smoking gun for the…

What does 93.3% similar mean? We’re 90% similar to cats and mice by some measures of DNA.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#287
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

It’s almost as if we learned new information that contradicts old information and the media is doing its job publishing articles about it. How weird.

Parts of the media listened to a bunch of people who all had good reason to dismiss theories that would point to them as in some way connected to research they knew was dangerous and this assessment was used for widespread censorship of contrary opinions.

The media is supposed to be a bit more skeptical of their sources than that. At this point I follow rules that look a lot like these:

https://info.publicintelligence.net/USArmy-IntelAnalysis.pdf

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#288
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it could be perceived as a conflict of interest, and that of itself is the reason to at least declare it (for transparency). This is how it works in ethics.

Indeed, avoiding the perception of impropriety is second only to avoiding impropriety itself. When people perceive impropriety, even when there is none, trust in the system is undermined.

This obviously is a slippery slope because anybody can perceive anything.

If I perceive that your account sounds a lot like a Russian troll, then by your logic we should all discount your opinion because if you were a Russian troll you’d have a conflict, and since it seems like you might be according to my perception, how could we trust anything you say?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#289

This is why people say "do your own research". Because trusting some other authority will end badly, just like this.

People say "do your own research" but really more than most people are incapable of finding and evaluating information on their own. "Read a bunch of blogs and facebook posts until something fits your pre-judged intuition" doesn't count as research and that is the extent of the abilities of people.

There is something distinctly missing from education even through undergraduate degrees: gathering, evaluating, and criticizing conflicting high quality research.

I took a philosophy class in the spring and one of the most striking things about it wasn't the material but the other students (most of whom a decade or more my junior) reactions to the material. A few of them were openly upset at the disagreement and inconsistency of philosophical opinion on every topic discussed; I didn't really understand it at first but then... What seems to have happened is basically for their entire education up to their senior years in undergrad, these people had only really ever been taught the Truth as though everything presented to them were solid facts and as a corollary, in general things should just be known and true or not.

There is a really big gap there. Sure, there are plenty of things which are quite certain, but people need to be driven to realize the truth doesn't just pop out one day, it is arrived at through a long process of disagreement and development and there are few ideas out there which weren't in their time quite controversial, and there is plenty still which is being presented as True which really has quite a bit of room for doubt.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha. No. It’s because of politics and TDS. People were taught that this was a Trump theory. That’s all the media needs to say to ensure that nobody will take it seriously and nobody will tolerate anyone else who takes it seriously.

Except that it was a Trump theory. That doesn't mean it cannot be true. It does mean that after 3 years and several thousand fully documented outright lies, the presumption of truth was no longer being granted.

No. It was not a Trump theory. It was commonly believed among Chinese political dissidents. Any Chinese people who don't believe the CCP have speculated this long before Trump even had any thought on this. Please stop relating everything to Trump.
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