The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins • Hacker News Board

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#241

Post by lurquer » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:32 AM UTC

lamontcg wrote: post #154

harryf wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets worse - gain of function research was banned under Obama until the ban was lifted in 2017 under Trump - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3... I can’t find sources for this right now but apparently Dr Anthony Fauci played a key role in getting the ban lifted. He’s also the head of the NIAID ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci ) which (apparently) is the ultimate source for…

They indirectly gave WIV funding to support research into Pig SARS -- Swine acute diarrhea syndrome coronavirus (SADS-CoV). There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. And giving China money to study diseases in pigs happening in China that are closely related to a human disease that we were worried about it (or maybe a close relative) spilling over…

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#242

Post by gkfasdfasdf » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

Does anybody know if the current lab leak theories say if it was a natural virus that was released by accident, or was it something engineered in the course of research that was released by accident?

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#243

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #168

briefcomment wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Craziest excuse I've ever heard: "I couldn't be bothered to act rationally and morally because someone else was being too annoying".

What do you think the moral of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" is? Is it a lesson for the villagers, or a lesson for a (potential) liar?

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#244

Post by dariusj18 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#245

Post by remarkEon » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:39 AM UTC

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #70

You know the story of the boy who cried wolf? Trump was the boy. Everybody knows how that story ended, but as a reminder: "This tale concerns a shepherd boy who repeatedly tricks nearby villagers into thinking a wolf is attacking his flock. When a wolf actually does appear, the villagers do not believe the boy's cries for help, and the flock is destroyed. The moral of the story is that liars will not be rewarded; eve…

As has been pointed out, repeatedly, Trump was not the only one pointing out the lab leak hypothesis. "Trump made me not take the lab leak hypothesis seriously" is not the excuse that journalists seem to think it is.

Trump seems to occupy a super position in the brains of media types in this country. He is a idiotic buffoon who no one should take seriously and yet he somehow magically and constantly influences behavior that is directly related to their job.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#246

Post by ed25519FUUU » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

corpMaverick wrote: post #139

mc32 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

IMHO, we were in the middle of the problem. The important part to was to figure out how to get out of it. The investigation at that point would not be helpful as it may make cooperation more difficult. Even if the result is that is natural origin and it escaped from a Wet Market. It was China's responsibility and the whole world must make sure to force China to ban wet markets. But as I said before, it will come a ti…

Suppressing the truth because you want to game the outcome is an extremely dangerous position to take. It never ends well for the little guy, who ends up getting neither truth nor the best outcome.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#247

Post by Natsu » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

lurquer wrote: post #241

lamontcg wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They indirectly gave WIV funding to support research into Pig SARS -- Swine acute diarrhea syndrome coronavirus (SADS-CoV). There is exactly fuckoff zero evidence that funding wound up supporting gain of function research for anything. And giving China money to study diseases in pigs happening in China that are closely related to a human disease that we were worried about it (or maybe a close relative) spilling over…

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I wouldn't say that all GOF research is for bioweapons, part of it is to see where the virus is likely to evolve next and protect against that, which is more on the defensive side of that.

Doesn't mean it's less risky, mind you, and this is convincing me that the experts on this need to reassess whether it's worth the risks and if so, what safety precautions are needed. I would think that BSL-2 is just way too low, but I would defer to the scientists on this and only say that I think this shows that anything done to make something more infectious to humans should be treated as though it already was highly infectious to humans.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#248

Post by alexkcd » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:40 AM UTC

analog31 wrote: post #64

kaesar14 wrote: post #54

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

Here's what I remember from that time period. My recollection is that the wet market hypothesis fell out of favor rather quickly, but nothing else really emerged in its place. The lab leak theory was circulating, but amongst people such as rank-and-file scientists, the attitude was: We aren't going to get a straight answer about this, but we've got to defeat this virus. I don't remember dismissing the lab leak theory…

The article literally cites a statement put out by a respected medical journal on Feb. 29, 2020, and signed by 27 scientists, "roundly rejecting the lab-leak hypothesis, effectively casting it as a xenophobic cousin to climate change denialism and anti-vaxxism."

Whatever your recollection of "rank-and-file scientists" attitudes is, the narrative on record is to the contrary.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#249

Post by Throwawayaerlei » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:41 AM UTC

henearkr wrote: post #220

Throwawayaerlei wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The A gravamen of the SARS-CoV-2 furin cleavage site claim is that it's not aligned like others in the coronaviruses you cite.

I'd love more information if you have. Because per se it does not prove the claim of bioengineering.

It's not in Nicolas Wade's article, which I now see has been unfairly maligned along with David Baltimore who's been selectively quoted to leave out the technical detail of what made the latter say the SARS-CoV-2 is a smoking gun, see the 4) A Question of Codons: https://nicholaswade.medium.com/origin-of-covid-following-th... If correct, that's getting strongly into bioengineering evidence.

You are of course more likely correct about the alignment issue, I can't find my source now, and the above is probably much stronger evidence. For the alignment you'd have to be a virologist, probably one specializing in coronaviruses, to be able to really judge this. Of course a whole bunch of biologists have shifted their focus to coronaviruses in the last year and a half.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#250

Post by S_A_P » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:42 AM UTC

Why is the lab leak theory so taboo? I dont understand why this would want to be glossed over? If a mistake was made why are we not learning from it? Why would China care? its not like anything would change if they admitted a mea culpa here. I just feel like so many factors point to this not being a 'wild' virus it just didnt make sense to not investigate if this was a lab leak. Lets learn here and do better.