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Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

fastcompany.com

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Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#91

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #85
arrosenberg wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We outsourced manufacturing and those cost savings were certainly not illusory. Sure they are. The expertise and factories to build a lot of components are no longer in the US, which has a ton of knock-on effects in the economy - job loss, decline, etc. That's a hidden cost that offsets whatever cash savings were experienced on the front end.

Those are societal costs, not costs for the company making the decision to outsource or not. A company taking into account those societal costs while others do not will end up not being able to competitively price their products.

[deleted]

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#92

Post by mdoms »

phkahler wrote: post #71
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

The problem with fully remote work is that once you accept that a job can be done from anywhere, you have to compete on a global level. It can be done from India, China, Pakistan, or any other place where they have smart people willing to work for less than you! So don't get too excited about it ;-)

There are still barriers to truly global labour - time zones, language barriers, complicated tax systems etc. I'm in New Zealand where there's little overlap in working hour time zones with most major markets.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#93

Post by itronitron »

Fordec wrote: post #56
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

On point 4, I think this is where co-working spaces have a moment to shine. A fully remote environment that you still get to leave the house to go to and no impact on how the rest of the team live their lives.

I think it really comes down to urban planning and the burden of most people's commutes. Worth noting that from my experience the interpersonal negativity index of my previous work environments is highly correlated with longer commute times and larger city size.

If I were running a large company I would create many small satellite offices around the metro area that employees could sign up to work from. Might even be worth purchasing a few large RVs and renting space and power hookups in good locations while figuring out employee preferences.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#94

Post by not_jd_salinger »

phkahler wrote: post #71
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

The problem with fully remote work is that once you accept that a job can be done from anywhere, you have to compete on a global level. It can be done from India, China, Pakistan, or any other place where they have smart people willing to work for less than you! So don't get too excited about it ;-)

People have been making this threat for decades now but here is the thing: you always get what you pay for.

High quality developers from these countries can get paid surprisingly well. The ones that are insanely cheap tend to also do poor work.

The reason we still plenty of work being outsourced is because if you have a really high tolerance for low quality work, the lower end is much cheaper than you can get in the US.

You are also wildly underestimating some of the tech markets. I know plenty of people that are heading back to China because they are being offered amazing positions over there.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#95

Post by daltont »

zeta0134 wrote: post #46

I'm firmly in camp "office time sounds wonderful" because I live alone, and as it turns out, not having any humans nearby is downright depressing. I'm also somewhat introverted (weird, right?) and while I was living with other people, I desired quite the opposite; staying at home was much less distracting than being in the chaos of a shared space most days. So which do I prefer? Ehh, it depends. I'm not planning to l…

I'm an introvert and WFH all the time has made me borderline crazy, but it is sure nice not to have to drive to an office 30-minutes away when most days I could just starting working.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#96

Post by ghaff »

qchris wrote: post #42
emc3 wrote: post #2

In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. They will try to decrease WFH compensation initially, like the loss of benefits threat in the article, but the number of potential employers is higher for WFH workers, giving them leverage.

For one, I'd argue that working from home probably requires additional pay over working in the office. I'm sure some people have a "spare" bedroom that they can convert into an office, but there's a lot of people, including almost all the tech-oriented professionals under 30 that I know, that don't even have their own one bedroom apartment, let alone are able to pay for a second bedroom just in case. Working at the k…

Companies will make offers. Prospective employees will negotiate based on conditions and salary. For some, working from home reduces costs (raises hand). No commute and no real incremental costs; I have a dedicated office and have never had free food offered in an office. For others it's a big cost.

If someone wants to live in a dense urban core and a company is 100% remote, that may not be a good deal.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#97

Post by hvocode »

I wish it were only leaders who are desperate to get back to the office, but it seems like the other force pushing for return to office time is the cohort of people where work IS their social circle. I can't relate to that crowd - even when I was young and single, my social circle was largely outside work and in grad school I tended to socialize outside my department.

This social argument I sympathize with - nobody likes to be lonely. But please - don't force everyone to go back to one model of working simply to support a subset of people who've chosen to make their life revolve around their employment.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#99

Post by pinkybanana »

darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

> 4. People who absolutely cant stand their families want to spend time away from them.

I don't think this is fair characterisation. If you have kids, working from home can be quite stressful.

> And to all of these people I will say, go to the office if that's something you want, but don't make me go too.

Generally almost no one gives a shit if you work from home or not. The only one caring about that is your employer, and you should negotiate with your employer about that. No need to complain about everyone and everything if you can't find an employer willing to let you work remote.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#100

Post by umeshunni »

bluedino wrote: post #63
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

>> productivity increased Did it, though? GDP has just reached pre-pandemic levels.

GDP is at pre pandemic levels now with sizable sections of the economy (travel, restaurants etc) still operating well below capacity.
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