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Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

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Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#71

Post by phkahler »

darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

The problem with fully remote work is that once you accept that a job can be done from anywhere, you have to compete on a global level. It can be done from India, China, Pakistan, or any other place where they have smart people willing to work for less than you! So don't get too excited about it ;-)

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#72

Post by jdhn »

I really believe that if the push to return to the office continues, we're going to see articles crying as to how "entitled workers" are leaving companies who push for limiting/ending remote work.

As an anecdote, I had a conference call with coworkers from another company who said that there were lots of people from their company that were leaving because the company had reneged on their promise to continue full time remote work.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#73

Post by lotsofpulp »

itronitron wrote: post #51
mywittyname wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have still been putting it off. And it still takes a few weeks for full immunity to kick in.

Also, anyone that is vaccinated can still 'catch Covid' and potentially pass it on to family members that are not yet able to be vaccinated.

Anyone can catch anything and potentially pass it on all the time. But at least the CDC thinks the risk is sufficiently low that it is not worth worrying about:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vac...

>If you’ve been fully vaccinated:

>If you’ve been around someone who has COVID-19, you do not need to stay away from others or get tested unless you have symptoms.

I don't know what this caveat right after that is about though.

>However, if you live or work in a correctional or detention facility or a homeless shelter and are around someone who has COVID-19, you should still get tested, even if you don’t have symptoms.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#74

Post by vertis »

aplummer wrote: post #13
commandlinefan wrote: post #6

Well, if remote work isn't feasible (for the reasons stated), neither is offshoring. Or outsourcing. Or physical satellite offices.

I’m not sure that sells it, because I don’t think offshoring and outsourcing is feasible…

Offshoring and outsourcing can be a nightmare. It doesn't have to be though. I've seen at least one example that works very well.

Of course it was less about cost and more about the ability to quickly provide additional resources, and it was done with the upmost care to make it still feel like one team, but it doesn't have to be a nightmare.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#75

Post by whoisjuan »

Here’s the thing, while remote work this year has been a net positive in productivity for many tech companies, that wasn’t necessarily the case for all companies, mainly because of their inability to measure it. Many companies were more concerned about trying to keep a iron grip on employees than enabling them to be successful as remote workers.

There are some naive executives who believe having an office is a big part of what helps them operate successfully. These executives are just entrenched in the old ways. They can’t fathom a world where their employees can work efficiently in a remote environment because they build all their management based on the idea of personal face to face interactions.

There’s another group of executives that’s even worse. Those who simply operate from mistrust. They need to have their employees in the office because otherwise they can’t validate and measure their employees output (although this is just as hard to measure in person). They need to see the employee physically present because for them employees salaries can only be justified when they add working hours, not based on the merits of their output.

But a reality check is here for all of them. One positive outcome from Covid is that it’s fully rebalancing the power between employer and employee. Definitely eager to see how this plays out.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#76

Post by not_jd_salinger »

throwawayboise wrote: post #20
mech422 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been WFH for 20 years now... It gets easier all the time, the pay gets better, and I actually have a much better setup at home then I've ever had in an office (Granted, I've had 20 years to set it up...) I'm not concerned about 'losing out' in any capacity going forward, especially now when its become so common.

Where do you find work? Is it all for one client or are you more of a consultant/contractor?

In tech there have always been a relatively large number of remote friendly companies. I worked for the better part of a decade fully remote, in full time, reasonably well paying positions at a wide range of companies. I only returned to an office a bit before pandemic broke out and don't have any intention of returning to an office full time now.

After the pandemic there was an even larger number of companies that are at the very least remote friendly. Most Pre-pandemic getting a fully remote job didn't take too much work find, and now nearly all companies I've talked to in the last few months are willing to support remote roles.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#77

Post by thrower123 »

emc3 wrote: post #2

In-office work needs to be compensated differently than WFH. They will try to decrease WFH compensation initially, like the loss of benefits threat in the article, but the number of potential employers is higher for WFH workers, giving them leverage.

Yeah, I'd want to be paid at least 25% more, since by requiring me to commute to the office, you are taking two hours a day from me that's of no use to either of us.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#78

Post by ghaff »

cmuguythrow wrote: post #62
darth_avocado wrote: post #34

The whole pushback against remote work is absolutely nuts. When the companies were staring at shutdowns and loss of revenue, everyone gladly accepted the idea that people can work from home. And contrary to the popular belief, productivity increased (our own CEO admitted at one point in an all hands). But the minute there was a sign things are opening up, there's a complete opposite viewpoint being pushed from the sa…

Just want to provide a counter-story to your anecdote. Many of my colleagues are excited to go back to the office to increase collaboration and work satisfaction. Personally, wfh is really difficult for me and I can't wait to get back in the office. Working from home feels like grinding away at an endless list of tasks and waiting for the day to be over. Working at an office feels like playing a sport with a team - e…

I've been effectively remote (albeit with a lot of work travel) for a number of years now and won't ever return to an office. That said, and appreciating that it's a different world from a few decades ago in terms of comms and so forth, it feels to me that coming out of school and shortly thereafter and being in this situation would have been extremely difficult.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#79

Post by okareaman »

If enough people hold firm this is a chance to change the corporate office paradigm for good. There are a lot of good reasons to WFH and a lot of bad reasons managers have for not allowing it. I programmed from home for 12 years, then worked in corporate offices for 5 years. I did my best work at home. I was really happy with my work output and quality of work I produced. Then working in offices I could never adjust and both myself and my employers were disappointed in my output. It's due to a lot of small things, like I sometimes get burned out thinking about a problem and need to take a quick nap to refresh. This was never possible in an office. It was better for my wife too. If she wanted to run out while the kids were napping, I was there for them while I worked. It was just so nice compared to the hell of being stuck in some office park with people I didn't know that well and didn't even like that much.

Re: Why workers are calling BS on leaders about returning to the office

#80

Post by bluedino »

thrower123 wrote: post #30
addicted wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The flip side is that if remote work is absolutely the same, then offshoring and outsourcing are also. Why have your employees work remotely in a city 100 miles from their original office at 80-90% of the cost when you can have them be 1000 miles from the office at 30-40% of the cost. If you find employees in Central and South America they would also be in the same timezone.

We just have twenty years of experience that any initial cost savings generated by outsourcing are illusory and come due with interest on the back end.

Why does every vendor I deal with still do it, at least for support?
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