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Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

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Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#831

Post by _jal »

heavyset_go wrote: post #196
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

> For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting

This is true. I choose to live within walking distance of my office, and it has vastly improved my life - prior to this job, I commuted 2.5 hours a day, and that was awful.

These choices of course have complex tradeoffs, but you don't have to commute, it is a choice.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#832

Post by ashtonkem »

jtr1 wrote: post #348
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think everybody finds work to be an unfulfilling drain on their leisure time Well said. WFH doesn't fix a bad job or a draining company culture. If your job is miserable and you can't stand your coworkers then you need to find another job, remote or not.

I have fantastic colleagues and I'd still rather work remote. My commute easily gets up to 10 hours / week on a miserable public transit system. I prefer to spend that extra 10 hours with my family, friends, and neighbors, or on household chores, or hobbies, or just relaxing. I certainly understand that some people prefer the buzz of the office and I support people working in the environment that best suits their nee…

I’m also seeing a lot of sunk cost thinking on the part of management, and have seen a few cringe worthy “remember how great the office was?” stuff from execs.

I think when you’re a C level, the size and appeal of the office gets melded into your ego, and you can’t get the same boost from people working from home.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#833

Post by P_I_Staker »

ferdowsi wrote: post #75
Nbox9 wrote: post #51

I work for another company that is going to do a partial return to office. I will be looking at options for companies that offer full in person office (or 90% in person office) after things settle down. I have worked full remote for a total of 5 years of my career, and I believe working in the office is a competitive advantage. * Overhearing hallway conversations (and joining them) helps spawn invocation. * I often d…

Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone. When I look back on hallway conversations, I can't think of many that really mattered. Actual important decisions are typically not made by IC engineers. Relevant conversations are usually inside team structures and not spontaneous.

> Since starting to work remote I've discovered the power of shutting down the work laptop (not sleeping) at a set time and not looking back. No Slack or work email on the phone.

What!?!? I don't necessarily agree with OP, but this is the exact opposite of my experience (mostly observing others). One of the main downsides of WFH is the "always on" nature of it.

I usually left my laptop at work, and ignored my phone before (after all I'm not at work). Now you're always set up to work, so there's no reason you can't respond at 8PM. I don't, but many of my colleagues do.

Most of my coworkers, especially the ones that would be leaving early for work life balance reasons, work all hours, and I get randomly pinged at 5:30-8 by people that would just be done for the day. They don't need to commute, so they have less pressure about working at odd times, and want to show managers the advantages of the WFH thing, so it won't go away.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#834

Post by londons_explore »

twobitshifter wrote: post #821
londons_explore wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way to reduce carbon footprint is to put a zero on the price of gasoline, diesel, natural gas and all other forms of carbon-based fuel. A 900% tax should do just fine. Just nobody is brave enough to do it, because it would be political suicide. Even if you gave the money back to the people in the form of tax breaks and social programmes, it would still be political suicide.

I don’t know - a carbon tax and telling everyone they’re required to come to the office just seems like it’s punishing workers even more. For many people transit it’s not available or odd fossil fueled powered. WFH should be preferred over a carbon tax on commuting - eliminating the consumption altogether is far better than sending tax money to the government and hoping that people change behaviors based on pricing.

A 900% tax would make workers tell their employers that they demand to work from home, get a big pay rise, or go on strike...

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#835

Post by Icathian »

lostgame wrote: post #472
swiley wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There are also plenty of people who like their coworkers and enjoy spending time with them You can do this without forcing them to be around you. That's apparently a new concept to a lot of people.

Sorry; but no. This weird virtual interaction is nowhere close to the real social environment of seeing and working with people face to face. We shouldn’t be forced to come in; but I for one would freakin’ love the option. This is a primary cause of concern for kids at school; that the social aspect is missing in that way. Nowhere close, really.

Maybe it's "nowhere close" for you. Have you considered that for other people it's perfectly equivalent?

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#836

Post by dcolkitt »

dahfizz wrote: post #763
TeMPOraL wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm really getting my hackles up with corporations making end users responsible for things like plastic, industrial farming and co2 emissions. Me too, but GP has an argument along these lines here. Commute is a big, and often deciding factor, in private car ownership. Get rid of it, and most drivers will lose the major reason for owning a car. Expand the delivery systems for day-to-day stuff like groceries, and ano…

> Get rid of it, and most drivers will lose the major reason for owning a car. I think this is backwards. We saw during the pandemic a mass exodus from cities. Once people could work from home, they decided they didn't want to live in a city anymore. Once you remove the burden of commuting, suburban / rural life becomes _even more_ attractive, increasing the need for cars.

The past year also saw a 50%+ spike in urban violent crime rates, and repeated riots in nearly every major city. Anecdotally most of the professional families I know who fled to the suburbs cited safety as the primary reason.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#838

Post by CobsterLock »

_jal wrote: post #831
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

> For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting This is true. I choose to live within walking distance of my office, and it has vastly improved my life - prior to this job, I commuted 2.5 hours a day, and that was awful. These choices of course have complex tradeoffs, but you don't have to commute, it is a choice.

I feel like this borders on the kind of insensitive comment that people get when they live paycheck to paycheck. Why don't you just save your money for a month? Why don't you just buy nicer shoes so you don't have to replace them every other month?

I feel like the trade off isn't that complex. Walking to work is a luxury of having a well paying job in the city.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#839

Post by biztos »

swiley wrote: post #749
bpodgursky wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Gender inclusivity" at tech companies is really a completely different axis than "motherhood or fatherhood friendly". "Parent" is not a protected class (at least, not on Twitter), and it's really not the goal of any FAANG company to encourage their workers to have families. It requires much harder tradeoffs than being "gender diverse".

> it's really not the goal of any FAANG company to encourage their workers to have families. Something that for one reason or another is more popular among younger women than men. This excludes women whether they want to admit it or not.

It also seems really self-defeating. Talent attrition is a major problem at any company, and people with kids are way more likely to stick around in their nice comfy jobs, regardless of their gender.

Re: Apple asks staff to return to office 3 days a week starting in early September

#840

Post by dcolkitt »

enriquto wrote: post #713
heavyset_go wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I save money by spending less on food, drinks, and electricity. For those of us who have to commute, it's not exactly the norm to be saving money while commuting. Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages[1], and the median commute time results in spending 10 full days commuting a year. The average commuter in one of the largest metro areas in the country will spend over 13 full days commuting a year:…

> Commutes are responsible for a 10% drop in hourly wages Maybe statistically, OK. But if you have a nice commute it may be likely the best part of your day. I have a mostly flat, 40 min bike ride in the woods every day, and it is my "me time" that I cherish and lets me unwind before and after work. Definitely not "lost time".

Fewer than 1% of Americans commute by bike.[1] For the vast majority of people the end of WFH will not be a relaxing meander of me time through the forest.

[1] https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2019/05/younger-worke...

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