What I learned today: Never apply for a job • Hacker News Board

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#61

Post by ecaron » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 1:41 AM UTC

dpritchett wrote: post #37

ecaron wrote: post #22

Sites like Monster are going the way of the yellow pages. And just like you could replace the yellow pages with asking neighbors who they recommend, there is a balance between finding good sources (using Google to find a plumber, using Indeed/LinkUp* to find jobs) and understanding the value of networking. There is a reason CareerBuilder drops millions on a SuperBowl ad each year and Monster spent over $1.2M at an em…

First I've heard of your site. How is it different from Indeed?

LinkUp.com only indexes jobs found on company websites - we go way out of our way to make sure our spiders never include jobs from job boards or staffing companies. We do this to make sure that all the jobs on our site are still open, that their aren't any duplicates, and that there aren't any scams on it.

It sounded easy to us when we started too, but being accurately able to directly link to a company's job is a far trickier business than it should be - not to mention being able to tell the job's title from its location from its description. If you'd like a sample, figure out how to parse CDW's career section - https://cdw.taleo.net/careersection/10200/jobsearch.ftl - which is actually one of the easier ones:)

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#62

Post by ajslater » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 1:59 AM UTC

This is very strange advice. I've never gotten a job from an acquaintance and am never likely to. There's a much bigger pool of jobs from people you don't know and a much better chance of a good match being made somewhere in that pool. The numbers are obviously in your favor despite the fact that people you've worked with know you're good. Its unlikely that you and people you know just happen to want to do the exact same thing at the exact same time with everyone else looking to recruit you.

I'd also feel really weird getting a job via acquaintance. Its like a kind of nepotism I don't want or need.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#63

Post by radarsat1 » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 2:08 AM UTC

Yes, this is an old concept called "networking". Unfortunately not everyone's very good at it, and unfortunately not being good at networking doesn't mean you wouldn't be good at the job in question. But that's life... social connections are indeed an important factor in all walks of life, and not something you learn in any classroom. It's a hard lesson for some of us.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#64

Post by lwat » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 2:32 AM UTC

Personally I've never applied for a job (I'm 32 now) and in our company the very first thing we do is ask around for personal recommendations when hiring new staff. Advertising the job is the last resort and usually gives the worst results.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#65

Post by roundsquare » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 3:38 AM UTC

fedorabbit wrote: post #58

parfe wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then it might be time to explore some other hobbies. There are non-computer related things do that don't require you to be in shape and that includes actually getting in shape! Fly an RC helicopter, start hiking, volunteer at the soup kitchen. No one is going to care about some snippet of code but that's your fault for being so 1-dimensional If all you have for work and pleasure involves sitting at a computer then yo…

It's like addiction actually. need adjustment! Good advice!

I'm going to suggest indoor* wall climbing as a hobby. Lots of nerds like it because its actually very analytic. Doing a particular climb often requires analyzing where the hand/foot holds are and figuring out the best way to use them. If you've ever done any work in AI, you run into problems where you its hard to tell if you have a bug in your code or if your learning algorithm isn't very good. Its the same with climbing: is my method bad or am I just doing it wrong?

Edit: one other benefit, if you find a wall you can just go during its open hours and meet people after you get there. In my experience, people will see you struggle with something and swing by to give you a quick tip ("try putting your feet a bit higher", "try using your left hand over here", etc...)

*Indoor because its less intimidating and the walls often have custom made climbs for various skill levels.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#66

Post by amorphid » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 4:30 AM UTC

ecaron wrote: post #61

dpritchett wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First I've heard of your site. How is it different from Indeed?

LinkUp.com only indexes jobs found on company websites - we go way out of our way to make sure our spiders never include jobs from job boards or staffing companies. We do this to make sure that all the jobs on our site are still open, that their aren't any duplicates, and that there aren't any scams on it. It sounded easy to us when we started too, but being accurately able to directly link to a company's job is a fa…

I am sure you know this, but many jobs list on company career sites are not open. Many are quite old and dated.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#67

Post by salemh » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 5:19 AM UTC

mgkimsal wrote: post #54

walexander wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's a criteria for you when looking for an employer, then that's your choice, but I personally would never expect such a thing. The last time I had to interview (being an engineer), I was sent 7 resumes on a Monday for interviews being conducted on a Wednesday. I checked out any links they put on their resume, apps in the appstore, etc. If they did not feel they could be bothered to tell me about something, the…

"I checked out any links they put on their resume" So... you did research on someone that made themselves researchable. Good job. That's what I expect, and I'd expect that you'd expect that too.

It wasn't clear from your original post that your links were in your CV / resume. Should be a lesson to those who want to showcase their "side" projects, LinkedIn profile (heavily checked now days), to put these ON your resume. I consistently fidn in screening Software, Web Dev's and designers asking them if they have an online profile, github, LinkedIn that the answer is yes, but is absent from the resume.

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#68

Post by salemh » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 5:21 AM UTC

slindsey wrote: post #27

OliverSteenbuck wrote: post #6

sounds like a good strategy, at every job I've worked the first question following a statement of "We need more people" was "Does anybody know somebody who would fit in here ?"

Every time I say "I know the perfect person", my bosses say, "No, we need to 'put the feelers out' and compare. There's no way to know if your guy is perfect without interviewing to see who's out there."

Psychologically difficult (is their a term here?) for singular decisions to be made outside of chaff to discard. Not just in hiring, but, particularly in hiring :)

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#69

Post by kposehn » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 6:00 AM UTC

Interesting - I haven't applied for a job in 3.5 years (because I own my own company) but at the same time, if I were to apply for a job...I wouldn't.

There's no real point. Don't bother trying to just do the same damn thing everyone else has done. Recruiters and hiring managers get 1k+ resumes a day.

Do something crazy, something nuts. Stand out from the crowd. The last thing you want to do is blend in because you just turn into another sheet of paper in the pile, even if you are near the top!

I'm going to put forth an example here: my cousin just graduated from high school in Grant's Pass Oregon. Small school, small town.

He's going to Oxford.

OXFORD.

Good for him! And he asked me what he should do for a graduation speech. I said "do something they'll never forget - make them remember you in your town forever"

His graduation speech was a two-parter with his best friend. The first part was an adaptation of "who's on first" and the second part was Dr. Seuss.

They'll never forget him, and they are sad he is leaving.

Do the same thing when applying for a job. You won't regret it.

(unless it isn't your style - it might be weird then and as my wife said just now, "context is king")

Re: What I learned today: Never apply for a job

#70

Post by tomjen3 » Thu, Jul 07, 2011, 6:23 AM UTC

bpick wrote: post #55

m0nty wrote: post #35

Just recently, I took a couple of steps to enhance my job searching. First was to post my CV/resume to jobs like monster.com; the second was a very old skool writing-a-letter-on-goddamn-paper-and-mailing-it-out-to-would-be-employers. The first has produced nothing but clueless phone-calls from agents. The second landed me a job with >90% certainty; I have a second interview next week. I am very well-qualified for the…

What someone should do is create a site where you can email your resume/letter in and have it attractively handwritten on nice letterhead. Who's with me?

It's not a bad idea, but the issue is going to be to find enough people with attractive handwriting...