What Oxford taught me about posh people • Hacker News Board

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#361

Post by breakfastduck » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 12:26 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #288

breakfastduck wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is suggesting that you are physically trapped in the job with shackles, but to insinuate everyone is in a position where they can just 'walk away' from their job is disingenuous at best, downright ignorant of the world at worst. It's about the same level as 'pull yourself up by your bootstraps'.

Well, people I've employed walked away whenever they felt like it. > ignorant of the world I only speak of the US. Before the pandemic upended things, unemployment rates were very, very low in the US. That doesn't auger for employees being beholden to employers at all.

You clearly speak for a very select set of people.

Which is fine, but stop projecting that onto the vast majority who absolutely cannot walk away from work 'whenever they feel like it' if they've any sort of family or responsibilities.

You're talking about the US and people not being beholden to employers - I'm sorry, but that is absolute nonsense for basically the entire working class.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#362

Post by WalterBright » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 4:45 AM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #266

mulvya wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In WW2, the US was able to fight two major wars simultaneously, and supply the allies, and move all that stuff overseas. An incredible achievement, only possible from free markets and the wealth produced by them. The US nationalized many industries during WWII. From 'U.S. not always averse to nationalization, despite its free-market image'[1] "In times of war and national emergency, Washington has not hesitated. In…

Also it's worth noting that the US has a bunch of nationalised/government controlled services that are privatised in the UK and other parts of Europe, including: - Airports and airport security - Postal service (USPS) - Train operators (Amtrak) - Insurance (FCIC, FEMA) - Various municipal utilities and the TVA - Various credit/financial/banking institutions In the UK, we have privatised airports, mail, energy, teleph…

The US indeed has a very unfree health care system, and that is the source of the bulk of the problems with it, such as incredible costs.

It's not a coincidence that the industries heavily distorted by the government in the US are the costliest - health care and education. Ironically, this interference was all aimed at reducing cost.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#363

Post by mrpopo » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 6:21 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #215

mrpopo wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US has seen the most spectacular rise from poverty to wealth ever seen in history. This is not true, historians collectively agree that Korea has seen the most spectacular rise. Also, your comment was spectacularly off-topic and anachronistic. A country being a manufacturing powerhouse during WW2 doesn't mean that immigrants have a fair chance today. First they need to be able to enter, then they need to be abl…

> historians collectively agree I'm not buying that. S. Korea's population is 51 million. The US elevated far more. Besides, SK's economy is free market, not communism. > First they need to be able to enter, 100,000 per month are flooding over the border. > then they need to be able to succeed. Evidently they believe they can, or they wouldn't come. As for around here in Seattle, there are immigrants everywhere . I j…

> S. Korea's population is 51 million. The US elevated far more.

You can't talk about countries with relative sizes and use absolute numbers. If you want to use this fallacy, I can tell you that the US is dwarfed by the whole of Asia.

Anyway, the original argument was that the USA isn't a country where everyone has a fair chance, but you absolutely want to turn it into anti-communist, pro-free-market propaganda.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#364

Post by anoncake » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 9:22 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #235

anoncake wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you cannot redistribute things that cannot be redistributed, for starters.

The Seattle school district decided to get rid of their gifted programs because it was unfair and increased inequality.

That could be reasonable if the resources used for that are reallocated to students who are behind.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#365

Post by anoncake » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

jseban wrote: post #200

anoncake wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a strawman. No one's claiming we can achieve total equality.

Yeah but the point is that any attempt of redistribution in the name of fairness, is also equally unfair from the opposite perspective. So there is no way to make anything "more fair", if you take from one person to give to another, it's always unfair for one of them.

It feels unfair to one of them. That doesn't mean it is.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#366

Post by nickpp » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 11:57 AM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #310

WalterBright wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, Roosevelt in his 1945 State of the Union Address advocated for imposing forced labor on American civilians. Fortunately, that went nowhere.

Many people working in the US today would disagree. The fact that the forcing is done with debt and threats of homelessness and not at gunpoint is just an implementation detail.

How would you propose enforcing the fulfillment of (freely entered and completely voluntary) contracts?

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#367

Post by anoncake » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 12:29 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #269

anoncake wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously you cannot redistribute things that cannot be redistributed, for starters.

At our nearby state high school, during physical education class, they didn’t allow people to lap anyone during running periods because it was unfair to those not fit. You can imagine what that looked like and who was walking around the gym with everyone else following slowly.

That isn't redistribution -- redistribution requires that someone actually gains something. That's plain stupid.

Whoever made that decision didn't go too far, they went into a completely wrong direction.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#368

Post by thorin » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:06 PM UTC

agent008t wrote: post #331

thorin wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent some time with students in Russia and they were even worse! Most of Europe is similar to an extent, but sure there are people who are obsessed with studying and learning, but there are a lot more who are keen to get away from their parents, spend money on beer and find girls/boys. Most Asian students I met who had come over to Europe were pretty serious. Anecdotally some friends from Wales who went on a study…

Out of interest, what was your experience with students in Russia? Would be interesting to compare with my experience. I suspect there is a big difference in Russia between top science universities and everywhere else. In my opinion, humanities education is of very poor quality in Russia so I could well imagine a party culture there. But the curriculum in top science programmes tends to be so intense and passing requ…

The students were pretty intense, but I'm guessing the ones I met in the bar weren't the ones studying chess games and reading maths papers. They do often play chess in the bar, while they're downing vodka...

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#369

Post by barry27 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:19 PM UTC

i found that unenlightening.

Re: What Oxford taught me about posh people

#370

Post by iratic0 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

iso1631 wrote: post #296

iratic0 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK after the Conservatives came to power in 2010 electing an Old Etonian, I felt culturally there was a shift towards "posh" is good as a signifier of status and social power. I feel like in the last 5 years or so it has turned to posh is "uncool". In the US, I feel like they had something similar. Obama was elected in 2008, but some people did have concerns of electing someone unestablished. To assuage these…

Looking at PMs over the last 50 years Heath, son of carpenter/builder, Scholarship to Oxford Wilson, father was an industrial chemist, scholarship to go to school, bursary to go to university Callaghan, father enlisted man in the Navy, then the coastgard, and died young leaving family relying on charity. Got a place at uni but couldn't afford to go Thatcher, father was a grocer. Got to Oxford on a scholarship, studie…

I disagree with the idea that Blair brought in posh = good. To me this feels like a continuation from Thatcher/Major.

Just going on personal experience I feel like 'chavs' had social confidence around the early Blair, and tended to be dismissed late Blair/Brown. By the time Cameron was in office I fell like there was an idea that Eton, private school, investment banking, Mayfair = good, or at least this was stronger under Cameron than Blair. It's all flipped now.