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Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

theguardian.com

241–250 of 338 posts

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#241

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No, it doesn't. Those aren't designed to make a bridge between untrusted networks. With a phone, they're usually on either LTE (which is generally regarded as reasonably secure) or your home network, but not typically both at the same time. Someone at Verizon could hypothetically exploit my phone from inside their network and then use that to attack my home LAN but that seems a pretty low risk. I don't believe that a…

It's a change, certainly, but mobile devices are a much bigger risk to your internal network than a Echo device is. Both are general-purpose computers inside, but the attack surface of a phone is way larger, and there are plenty of recorded instances of phones being compromised. The Echo devices have a good security track record, and I feel they remain much less likely to be compromised than any mobile device. The nu…

I think the Tile bit is a non sequitur. There’s no need for a Tile tag to create a network connection to a remote serve. That functionality could have been implemented without Sidewalk (eg Apple’s Find My is completely differently), so I’m dismissing that justification from Amazon.

I have a few Tile tags, too, and I hope their new Amazon partnership makes them start being useful. It didn’t need Sidewalk though.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#242
post #214

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I agree. And what, you're gonna rely on some neighbor's AMZN device proxying the internet for you? I hope the availability of that "smart" sensor or whatever isn't too important.

It’s not an Internet proxy. There is so much misinformation about this it’s nuts. It’s a network to talk to AWS IoT API. It’s not giving random devices access to your network.

> It’s a network to talk to AWS IoT API

Except Alexa is extensible, so you can't draw any kind of barrier around what's actually being done using that network.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#243

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Looks like I don't have the update yet. I don't see this menu option.

Check the Alexa app, not the Amazon app. Shows up in mine

yup,Alexa app, which I haven't opened since at least last year, and had all devices unplugged, found it buried in there - set to [ENABLED]. I've never seen a notice/alert/opt-out opportunity, and I would have noticed it.

So, yes, in at least some instances, Amazon is doing a stealth-enabled rollout.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#244

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Amazon notes this in their FAQ: it's capped at 80kbps and max of 500MB per month. I don't know if this includes Bluetooth though.

500MB per ip or per device?

It’s per account (whatever that means).

Link to FAQ: https://www.amazon.com/Amazon-Sidewalk/b?node=21328123011

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#245
post #134

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Playing devil's advocate here... aren't those same two things true of Sidewalk? If you purchase an Apple tag, then you benefit from other users who have this feature enabled. If you buy a device that uses Sidewalk, same situation. Both can be disabled.

You can’t opt out of Sidewalk after June 9. You can opt out of Apple’s Find My network any time you want on a per device basis.

You can opt out at any time. June 9th is just when they're turning the network on.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#246
post #212

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Can Apple devices use your mobile data to participate in the FindMy network? This seems like a weird line to draw.

The apple airtag devices do the same thing. They can get online via any apple device. Not sure if that applies to other FindMy devices though. I hope it does =)

> They can get online via any apple device.

Airtags don’t “get online.” Apple devices take note of the Airtag’s identifying characteristics (I don’t know how this is defined) and report back to Apple having been in proximity to them. They are “dumb” with respect to the internet. Just Bluetooth beacons.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#247
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon notes this in their FAQ: it's capped at 80kbps and max of 500MB per month. I don't know if this includes Bluetooth though.

Oh wow, that's plenty for email and text messaging. Where do I go to sing up to use sidewalk and cancel my cellular connection? Not having to deal with Qualcomm's stuff would be fantastic.

I wonder how far you could mesh up the east coast, if you had mesh devices in every home, and what the round trip time over that range would look like if you're hitting a device every hundred feet or so.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is true but in practice it's not a big deal. Companies don't usually do a single sku for the whole world especially with the certification requirements.

I (pre-covid) visit the US a lot and often bring stuff back. I'm used to turning off/switching the US-DECT/etc when required but in this case Amazon has snuck extra functionality into my home without my knowledge. Of course when the radio inspector comes knocking on my door because Amazon has loaded the wrong firmware into my box (without my knowledge) it's me who's breaking the law, not Amazon

this is already the case. certifications for 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi have different requirements between the US and EU. Often in the EU companies have to lower the peak power.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#249

could you imagine any orginisation just walking up to almost every home in the country and presuming they had the right to "a very small portion" of your property, unless you went through some steps to explicitly opt out? imagine they paid for their own infra to do this. how much would that cost? in this light, is sidewalk not theft? amazon, if you want to use my internet - for whichever distopic future plans you may…

I agree with the spirit of this but precedent doesn’t really agree with you because well… ads, analytics, telemetry, drm, etc.. These are all things that use your computing resources for someone else’s benefit.

This is the culture we’ve created in tech. There is a presumption that access implies blanket authorization — it’s the core of the hacker spirit, perpetuated through ToS’s, and protected at every legal challenge because restrictions to this idea are seen as overbearing regulation and stifling innovation.

I’ve always wished for regulation that required companies to have to request permission to access data and computing resources for a specific purpose and require that be opt-out by default. Like apps can request contacts for the purpose of looking up friends who use your service and be legally barred for using it for anything else.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#250
post #236

I could see working on Sidewalk as kind of a dream if you have no morals. A mesh network you can turn on with a flip of a switch, with millions of devices across the world? Seems really cool, if you don't care about privacy or security. But if you do - and we should - it's a disaster.

On the flip side I would love it if everyones wifi routers had a second SSID that was open to the general public. Why the hell aren’t we making it easy to share our home bandwidth with friends, family, and strangers needing a few mb of data? If this makes that acceptable again then I’m all in.

I think it’s more that it’s done largely without asking. I think HN would love for mesh networks to catch on but only if people choose to participate.
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