Rejection Sensitivity • Hacker News Board

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#91

Post by lwhi » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 7:39 PM UTC

meesterdude wrote: post #56

lwhi wrote: post #51

The author is treating friendship as a transactional exchange. You obtain friends. If you're well connected, you obtain many .. .. however, it's difficult to keep hold of them. --- The issue is friendship and human relations—while transactional during an exchange—are not transactional in the way recent app based culture has lead us to believe. We maintain relationships. We need to tend to them. They change as time mo…

> I'm not sure writing a blog post or tweet is displaying the necessary levels of sensitivity (at least on an interpersonal level) to meet this criteria. This is an unnecessary dig on the author, and is just a bit pompous. I would counter: writing a blog post on the loss of a close friend and exploring how and why for them and in society at large; displays a high level of introspection, self awareness, and a mature r…

I think it's fair.

I can understand your point, but I think the response of writing a blog post is an example of continued transactionality.

I'm not trying to be mean, I'm aiming to be honest.

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#92

Post by jcims » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 8:12 PM UTC

teachrdan wrote: post #84

jcims wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their lived experience, whether perceived or by proxy, is that women hated them first. The 'incel culture' is really just the same echo chamber amplification that the Internet enables with any marginalized group. Some are going to get out and lead a normal life, some are going to lean into it and get more and more detached from reality.

> Their lived experience, whether perceived or by proxy, is that women hated them first. How do we define "hate" here? There are incels who literally claim that they are entitled to sex with virginal women who are also extremely conventionally attractive. Does it rise to the level of hate when they are rejected by such women? There have also been incels who have gone on killing sprees and murdered multiple women -- a…

>How do we define "hate" here?

This is a question we should all ask when the term is used. It's a pet peeve of mine when people throw an unqualified 'hate' around and here I am doing the same thing.

Hormones are an extremely powerful, relentless motivator. It requires an equally profound level of rejection to override that signal. When a young person finally admits 'defeat' in seeking a relationship and then sees the person they are interested in select someone that's a polar opposite of them instead, it doesn't just feel like they are being rejected in the instance, but categorically rejected. It's not that 'she doesn't want anything to do with me', it's 'she doesn't want anything to do with anyone like me'. When this happens once, their ego can stomp on that feeling, but when it happens over and over it becomes something broadly categorical in and of itself. That's the feeling I'm referring to as 'hate'.

Everything you mention past that is, in my opinion, just applied extremism. If you'll pardon my language, unfuckable guys have existed forever. What's new is the cohort that the Internet in general and social media in particular enable. The basement edgelord not settling for anything less than a perfect 10 is the sexual equivalent of 'diamond hands' in /r/wallstreetbets. It's a signal of tribal allegiance and propped up by selection bias. As far as why there isn't a symmetry between the sexes, there are lots of theories...would love to see some research.

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#93

Post by ricopags » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 8:19 PM UTC

Scandiravian wrote: post #10

ilovefood wrote: post #3

Frankly as much as I read it (twice now) I find nothing good or bad to say, I don't seem to get the point and maybe someone can enlighten me? Is this a piece about how people became fragile at the face of delayed gratification or when something doesn't go their usual way (it seems a twitter unfollow initiated this whole thing)? So many questions. I understand that for some, that represents a drama which surely begs t…

From how I understand the post, it's about the disconnect between human nature and modern relations (personal, romantic, professional, etc) As humans we have a limit to how much rejection we can process in a healthy way. It varies from person to person, some can process things pretty quickly while others (like myself) quickly reach a breaking point This becomes an issue, when (as the author points out), we try to rat…

Autism and ADHD both can be sources of something called Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria[0] which is, in my experience, one of the most seriously socially damaging aspects of ADHD.

Fairly new field of study but there is some evidence that low doses of guanfacine and clonidine can offer help. More research needs to be done, but it appears to be genetic and neurological and not, as some may intuit, sourced in trauma.

[0]https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-an...

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#94

Post by bitexploder » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

yoz-y wrote: post #61

bitexploder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have these people forgotten how to live in the world without these apps? I understand how some folks get there with technology, but put the apps and screens down and go live in the real world. This concept that people are somehow captive to these apps blows my mind a little. I am generation X though, I grew up being kicked out of the house during the day and was forced to run around and play outside when not in schoo…

One of the reasons might be urbanisation and such? Although it is easy to go out in a city, the question sometimes is "what for"? I wonder if time spent on social media is correlated to population density of the area.

Unclear. I know my post was a bit curmudgeonly, but my point was, people and friends exist outside of the phone and the comfort of our homes. Even if you meet someone on an app you must leave the safety of your home. COVID-19 obviously complicated this. I think a lot of people stuck in this loop with their devices and lives would be well served to take up hobbies that force you to meet and interact with other humans. That is a starting point, as COVID-19 winds down. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and this applies for social networking as well. Real life rejection is also much less common outside of dating. It’s a skill and you can’t learn it on apps. Even as introverts, it’s worth it to find your social groove and things that work for you. I think cities can be more isolating in a lot of ways.

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#95

Post by shkkmo » Tue, Jun 01, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

plank_time wrote: post #81

shkkmo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social skills are not equally easy for everyone. > makes me think he’s simply not a good friend and deserves to be rejected. You sound like maybe a bit more rejection would have been good for your sense of empathy.

Empathy doesn’t mean saying “everything you do is okay.” Thats called enabling their behavior. It sometimes means having to say the honest, hard things in hopes that people will change their behavior for the better. It’s fairly obvious that the author has a hard time maintaining friendships. To blame that on society today and social media is wrong.

Saying "has some things to improve on" is very different from saying "deserves to be rejected".

In the article, the author reached out for feedback on what happened and the person didn't choose to say any "honest hard things."

I absolutely think it is fair to blame society today for treating people who face social challenges with contempt and scorn.

However, I disagree that there is any obvious evidence that this author has a hard time maintaining friendships.

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#96

Post by jm__87 » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

default_friend wrote: post #82

Author here! I think what (maybe?) got lost in this blog post is that it's more about the unhealthy nature of lifestyles that encourage the constant churn of socialization than feeling rejected by someone unfollowing me on Twitter. For me, lots of people I know in person follow me on Twitter, it's a bit of a ding. I'm also a super high visibility person on social and elsewhere, which complicates things. But lots of f…

Just curious, who or what is encouraging this constant churn of socialization that you are experiencing? I am not aware of this phenomenon

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#97

Post by nonbirithm » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 3:24 AM UTC

ricopags wrote: post #93

Scandiravian wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From how I understand the post, it's about the disconnect between human nature and modern relations (personal, romantic, professional, etc) As humans we have a limit to how much rejection we can process in a healthy way. It varies from person to person, some can process things pretty quickly while others (like myself) quickly reach a breaking point This becomes an issue, when (as the author points out), we try to rat…

Autism and ADHD both can be sources of something called Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria[0] which is, in my experience, one of the most seriously socially damaging aspects of ADHD. Fairly new field of study but there is some evidence that low doses of guanfacine and clonidine can offer help. More research needs to be done, but it appears to be genetic and neurological and not, as some may intuit, sourced in trauma. [0]…

Please note that "Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria" is not a medically standardized term. It was coined by an ADHD specialist and it appears he was the only real person promoting its usage.

https://psychology.stackexchange.com/questions/12583/what-is...

After I discovered this I usually labeled the qualities in myself as general social anxiety, or just "being bad at making friends or social situations." I wanted to believe that labelling every negative aspect of myself would help me understand my problems better, but it seems like it just made the appearance of those traits feel justified to me.

I've had to discipline myself not to take the easy way out and use the labels as excuses or explanations for my regrettable behavior when I already know of techniques or medicine to treat that behavior that have worked in the past. Learned helplessness has been pervasive throughout my entire life.

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#98

Post by nonbirithm » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 3:52 AM UTC

least wrote: post #19

We have more opportunities to interact with more people from all walks of life from all over the world in a way that is unprecedented. Marginalized groups have found ways to connect to people like them (which would have been impossible in the past). They've found validation about their identity and made real friends. There's so many positive aspects about the society and world we live in today. But because there's so…

I've always seen making friends as another hobby that I fail to remain interested in. But unlike hobbies like gushing about television shows or tending gardens, it's frequently stated that you need people to remain mentally healthy at a certain point. My gut feeling towards this sentiment is that given how ambivalent or ruthless some people have been to me when I've tried to play the social tact game, saying that making friends is not just another interest is so unfair that it angers me. (Then again, life generally isn't fair to begin with.)

My issue is similar: the strangers I meet ultimately don't see enough of a reason to keep interacting with me after a certain point, because my interests lie elsewhere. I just find playing the social game and trying to win favor tiresome and depressing, usually not having much to talk about in the end that wouldn't be forcing it or pretentious, and unless the relationship is therapeutic or deliberately a "reach out to me if you want to talk for a few days" sort of thing, it's never worked a single time, so I'm not even in a place to understand what the benefits of a lasting friendship even are, except having someone to endlessly and selfishly vent to.

But people are still pressuring me to get friends. Still it's a challenge that I'm not even sure I feel like surmounting in the first place, not when I don't understand what I'm working towards. And yet I'm up against a body of people that I have the responsibility to convince that I'm worthy of their limited time for this supposed need that will end up killing me if I fail to fulfill it, which from my experience, lack of relatable interests and limited attention span I'm generally not.

I mean, when it feels like the social aspect of your life is just a void and all you believe that having a friend would do is fill that void with something else, is that friendship even going to be be healthy? How can friendships be cultivated with someone that just cannot find a way to care about friendship in the first place?

About the only hope I feel I have is stumbling across someone who has the same disorders as I do, or has a child with one of those disorders, which would temper their outlook on people of my kind to be much more forgiving and patient. (In fact, that's about the only thing related to meeting people that's ever gone well in my life.) Then I would be able to talk about my behavioral patterns without a fear of being rejected due to there not being any way the person can empathize with something they don't want to understand. Ironic, given I don't really care about understanding a lot of things, and at times it feels like I can't help that. Why do some people like writing novels over watching movies? Maybe making friends will never be my hobby, and you probably wouldn't force yourself to get into a hobby that you actively dislike. But failing to remain interested in that hobby could significantly harm my chances of success in life.

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#99

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 5:35 AM UTC

Pet_Ant wrote: post #62

hackflip wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't unlikeable because they can't get laid. They can't get laid because they are unlikeable.

> They aren't unlikeable because they can't get laid. They can't get laid because they are unlikeable. Perhaps like ourobouros it feeds it self into a cycle that may amplify an initial bit of bad luck into a toxic cancer that kills it's host? The thing that I discovered about dating is that the more you do it the easier it is and the better you get at it... just like many other things... but there is no way to really…

[deleted]

Re: Rejection Sensitivity

#100

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 02, 2021, 5:36 AM UTC

jm__87 wrote: post #59

nradov wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most incel personal characteristics can be changed with a little effort. There's nothing wrong with changing to make yourself into someone else.

My assumption with anyone who wants to succeed at something but is repeatedly failing is that whatever changes they need to make to succeed are not easy or obvious for them - otherwise they would have made the changes already.

[deleted]