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Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

theguardian.com

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Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#201

Post by 1123581321 »

csharptwdec19 wrote: post #23
rudyfink wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not? Most consumer arbitration agreements these days ban asserting class claims. This has been on the rise since 2011: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AT%26T_Mobility_LLC_v._Concepc... . In my opinion, this legal change is a huge sleeper story that is behind a number of changes in how customers are getting treated. Since customers can no longer economically avail themselves of the courts to protect themselves en-…

It's amazing to watch companies admit they abuse this pattern. A couple years ago I got into it with Comcast over an Identity fraud issue. When I threatened to take them to court for harrassment (I'd sent them more than what was needed to prove I never resided at the address in question) they tried to throw the 'binding arbitration' clause out there... When I told them I never was or would be a customer of theirs and…

Was this a conversation with their legal department?

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#202

Post by caylus »

criley2 wrote: post #78
remarkEon wrote: post #68

Article doesn't mention it, but this is how you opt-out (there are others but this one has screenshots). https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk Added to my list for the next time I'm on the phone with my parents, for our (weekly at this point) how-to sessions on "stopping the industry I work in from spying on you". I really, really wish product managers would understand the kind of ecosystem they…

It's the same thing Apple is doing. They want every device to be a part of a low-power BLE network for Apple AirTags or Amazon Echo Tiles or whatever they are. They want a huge network so that these small low power devices can use everyones devices to connect to the internet. For what it's worth, the only way to Opt-Out from Apple's broad network like this is to disable all "Find My" network tracking, so you'll never…

> the only way to Opt-Out from Apple's broad network like this is to disable all "Find My" network tracking,

Not true. I just checked on my own phone, and the toggles for "Find My iPhone" and "Find My network" are separate. Disabling the latter only warns you you can't locate your phone "even if it's offline", i.e. if the "standard radio" is off.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#203

Post by philsnow »

lucasmullens wrote: post #109
philsnow wrote: post #87

So the opt-out period is only only one week, and I presumably won't be able to opt out later? I don't own any of these devices, but if I want to have the option to buy one later but not have it be a sidewalk bridge, I guess I have to download the Alexa app and... oh in order to opt out, I have to log in to the Alexa app with my Amazon account, and in order to log in, I have to agree to: - Alexa Terms of Use - Amazon…

>in order to opt out, I have to log in to the Alexa app with my Amazon account, and in order to log in, I have to agree to: If you already have an Alexa device running on your network, you've already agreed to all those terms. That concern seems fairly unrelated. Also I wouldn't assume you can't opt-out later. Pretty sure you can, actually.

> If you already have an Alexa device running on your network

I don't, which is why I was installing the Alexa app on my phone.

> I wouldn't assume you can't opt-out later

ah, I was thrown by the headline "given one week to opt out".

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#204

Post by philsnow »

eulers_secret wrote: post #155
philsnow wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My only options for escaping Sidewalk are living far enough away from neighbors or convincing all the neighbors within range of my house that they shouldn't have any Sidewalk bridge-able devices. I would at least be interested in a way of finding out what sidewalk bridges are accessible from my location. Anybody know of a way? Is it just wifi?

There's at least 2 other options: Disable (physically) modems/antennas of sidewalk-enabled devices you own, or do not purchase devices that are sidewalk-enabled. Sidewalk uses LoRa and a 900Mhz other signal (for garage door openers). With an SDR that can use that spectrum, you could probably determine if there are sidewalk endpoints around. Might be able to foxhunt them to certain houses. My plan is to do my best to…

I had thought that there wouldn't be any labeling requirements for Sidewalk-enabled devices, but you bring up FCC IDs. I've never given them much thought, but that's at least one thing to look out for in the future.

I'm now kind of interested to go look at the boxes for some of the devices I already own to get a feel for what's there. I expect it would probably all come down to a few BT / BLE / wifi chip manufacturers.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#205

Post by 1123581321 »

wearywanderer wrote: post #126
landonxjames wrote: post #71

I was worried that my Eero routers were going to get roped into this, but thankfully the CEO confirmed on Reddit[0] that there are currently no plans to involve their products in Sidewalk. [0] https://www.reddit.com/r/eero/comments/nnvs20/amazon_sidewal...

No plans... at least until Amazon offers them a big enough bribe.

Amazon owns them. If you knew that, apologies, it wasn’t clear to me.

Regardless, Sidewalk doesn’t make much sense for Eero since it provides the traditional Internet access points for the IoT devices that make up the Sidewalk mesh.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#206

Post by debo_ »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #138
FredPret wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A content “delivery” network running on human movements. Now that’d be an interesting routing problem.

Hah. Well, humans have easily predictable movement patterns right? Home, work, grocery store. Imagine wanting to move data from city A to city B, so they'd decide to do a Tinder match of a girl from City B to this guy from City A, so he'd visit her a lot and be the data conduit...

This is a terrific idea for a short story.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#207

Post by mdoms »

sokoloff wrote: post #80
vincent-toups wrote: post #14

I'd rather go without internet than have one of these damned smart devices in my house. I can't believe how popular they are.

I have my IoT/IoS devices cordoned off onto their own network locally (with internet access, of course) as a matter of trying to protect my LAN from any exploit. However, I find the convenience of these devices to be extremely high: they play music, they give us convenient timers, they function as a whole house intercom, they tell us the weather and answer (often poorly) some random questions without going to get our…

These are such absurdly small conveniences that are all serviced (in very very slightly less convenient fashion) by other less intrusive devices.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#208

Post by aplorbust »

remarkEon wrote: post #68

Article doesn't mention it, but this is how you opt-out (there are others but this one has screenshots). https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk Added to my list for the next time I'm on the phone with my parents, for our (weekly at this point) how-to sessions on "stopping the industry I work in from spying on you". I really, really wish product managers would understand the kind of ecosystem they…

Do the parents understand that spying on people is how the industry makes money? Surely, "the industry" would not spy on people without a "business" reason. There seeems to be a belief by every participant in "the industry" that they must learn things about users and they should not always have to ask permission to gather such information.

Sometimes people on HN try to analogise to something like a retail industry where a customer can be observed through their purchases. However there is a major difference. The purchase. That is the ultimate goal of the retailer attained. A purchase. The retail business is not some honeypot to gather information on people. It is trying to make sales. Users of "free" internet-connected products and services generally do not make purchases from the provider of those products/services. They are not fulfilling the goal of the business: to make money. Thus, the company must find paying customers somewhere else.

Particularly amusing is the oft-used "justification" of [we spy on you] "to make our ["free"] products and services better." Sometimes participants in "the industry" suggest they are trying to make products and services better for users. Other times it less clear exactly who the improvements are (purportedly) intended to benefit. Of course the ultimate goal, because this "industry" of spying is considered by them as a "business", is to make things better for paying customers. If they fail to collect information from users, they do not make money and the "business" fails. Even non-profits supported by deals with advertising companies feel compelled to conduct "telemetry". Not learning about users is deemed unacceptable.

"Spy or die".

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#209

Post by drdec »

josefresco wrote: post #5

This page on Tom's Guide has good background, a list of devices and instructions on how to opt out. https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk Amazon App> More > Settings > Account Settings > Amazon Sidewalk > Disable

What does one do it they don't have the Alexa app? It seems counter-productive to install it just to turn this off.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#210

Post by barbazoo »

hermitdev wrote: post #195
deanCommie wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"extend the low-bandwidth working range of devices to help find pets or valuables with Tile trackers, and help devices stay online even if they are outside the range of their home wifi" Seems like a genuine customer problem. If you want to set up smart lights through your back yard, or a smart sensor at the edge of your driver, they might not have WiFi connectivity to the rest of your house. Hence the Sidewalk metaph…

> Seems like a genuine customer problem. If you want to set up smart lights through your back yard, or a smart sensor at the edge of your driver, they might not have WiFi connectivity to the rest of your house. That sounds like a "you" problem, not a "me" problem. If "you" are setting up smart devices where "you" don't have connectivity, "you" should provide the connectivity, not "me". (Note: I don't have a problem w…

I agree. And what, you're gonna rely on some neighbor's AMZN device proxying the internet for you? I hope the availability of that "smart" sensor or whatever isn't too important.
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