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“Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

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Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#301

Post by throwaway_59538 »

tptacek wrote: post #206
generalizations wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the PDF is inscrutable I was able to follow it pretty easily. What did you have trouble with?

Sure, if it's helpful: * Its central claim, that PIA or Lee or whoever directed a bunch of money to Freenode or people involved with freenode, isn't contested by anyone. There's no record to set straight there. * It spends the bulk of its time talking about a problem Lee seems to have with Thomas Welsey ("tomaw", I think?) --- but the logs with "tomaw" seem relatively civil? It's not really even clear what the proble…

> PIA or Lee or whoever directed a bunch of money to Freenode or people involved with freenode, isn't contested by anyone.

Because many of the things presented by Andrew Lee (rasengan) seem to be distortions and half-truths, the statement above deserves some scrutiny.

Andrew Lee claims to have donated an amount greater than 1 million (assuming US dollars) to Freenode.

As far as I can tell, this was not to Freenode the IRC network, it was for the FreeNode Live conferences. This conference took place in 2017 and 2018, and had approximately 250 attendees in 2017 and 150-200 attendees in 2018.

The relevant parts as far as I can tell:

• the exact amount donated (1 million) has only been mentioned by Andrew Lee, and has not been verified by anyone else

• the amount donated is only for the two FreeNode Live conferences

• the FreeNode Live conferences seemingly have nothing to do with the freenode IRC network

• none of the money was every given to the people who donate the servers that run the freenode IRC network, or the operators that volunteer their time to run it

A lot of people seems to conflate the two. Andrew Lee's comments seem to encourage that ambiguity (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27236734), presumably because it seems to legitimize his hostile takeover of freenode IRC.

His contribution to the Freenode Live conferences (whatever monetary amount that was) should not entitle him to freenode IRC, he has not given a penny towards that.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#302

Post by scrutinizer80 »

Phanes wrote: post #295
scrutinizer80 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link #2 is a low-level, disrespectful and rude document - filled with personal attacks and insults. How can you expect to gain any sympathy posting something that is phrased like that? Despicable.

Hey , I'm the author at that blog. I was made aware of this thread in another medium and thought I'd chime in. I completely get why it would be advantageous to try to discredit people who disagree with you on the internet, but it's not always the most fruitful approach. Without rehashing old wounds by diving too far into specifics, this is a situation that has been brewing since at least 2008 when I was targeted for…

Thanks for your elaborate reply. I don’t know the details of your personal dispute with the (ex)Freenode staff individuals and I don’t think it matters right now. These things happen in practically all large communities on/off-line. It’s human nature. My issue was with Mr. Lee using your post as a means to redeem himself with the community. That blog post as genuine as it may be for you is phrased in a derogatory, childish way and shouldn’t be presented to people who are not involved with the social inner-workings of IRC. It’s bad strategy on Mr. Lee’s part and indicates a lack of judgement and dubious conduct.

I do believe you’re genuinely hurt, and quite possibly some of the staff have indeed wronged you. Yet the way your words were used by another who is not you, to publically defame people does you a disservice. Your reply to me has made it more than clear that you’re perfectly capable of explaining your position in a civil manner. Having that blog post online puts you in a bad light, however right you may be.

You’ve expressed your support of Richard Stallman which is basically supporting his right to be an a-hole and not to publically destroy his life. Now put your money where your mouth is and stand for those individuals’ right to be a-holes in your eyes and still have a life free of public personal humiliation.

All the best & No hard feelings, Scrutinizer.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#303

Post by GekkePrutser »

ique wrote: post #107
tapoxi wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC stays IRC, but how else does a network like freenode survive a giant schism? They need to differentiate from libera chat. Matrix has problems, but as the ecosystem grows we'll start to see improvements.

I’ve been using Matrix with Riot, now Element, for 5 years and it’s only ever gotten worse. You really shouldn’t expect to see improvements.

I used Riot/Element since back when it was still called "Vector" (these guys love their name changes)

It's ok but it's really aiming at the whatsapp/telegram crowd. Open a few hundred channels and it's overwhelmed, especially visually. You can set the channels to a higher-density view but not the channel list itself. You're scrolling forever.

Unfortunately Matrix is very tightly coupled with Element, it's the only client that really implements everything.

I'd love something like Quassel (which is what I use for IRC now) for Matrix. Native app, excellent performance and features.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#304

Post by nabakin »

blibble wrote: post #114
ilaksh wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's just Christel needed money and this guy took advantage and no one or almost no one with admin/operational duties was informed. So I think the legality of this transaction was dubious. But, I don't think it matters that much anymore. People just need to get the word out that the network has a new name.

so... she told Andrew that he now is the owner of freenode, whilst simultaneously telling the staff that he wasn't? whilst Andrew paid her (seemingly in exchange for ownership) not a bad deal for her... if that's a correct assessment then it certainly looks like that could be considered to be fraud

Yeah I've come to the same conclusion but idk why the staff didn't say this in the first place. They only said that they didn't know he was the owner.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#305

Post by jercos »

Phanes wrote: post #295
scrutinizer80 wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link #2 is a low-level, disrespectful and rude document - filled with personal attacks and insults. How can you expect to gain any sympathy posting something that is phrased like that? Despicable.

Hey , I'm the author at that blog. I was made aware of this thread in another medium and thought I'd chime in. I completely get why it would be advantageous to try to discredit people who disagree with you on the internet, but it's not always the most fruitful approach. Without rehashing old wounds by diving too far into specifics, this is a situation that has been brewing since at least 2008 when I was targeted for…

The disappearance of this blog post makes me think there's been a realization of some sort, perhaps that the post closely resembled accounts of "gang stalking", posted by individuals suffering from paranoid schizophrenia? I wonder if you realize in turn, how close you are to organized stalking yourself.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#306

Post by CRConrad »

fastball wrote: post #78
blibble wrote: post #42

the only relevant information is what's in the contract that "sold" freenode to Lee which has conveniently been omitted without that this looks like gaslighting

Lee is claiming that this is due to some confidentiality agreement, which makes is more inconvenient than convenient.

"I own you, and I have this contract here that proves it, but unfortunately it's secret so I can't show it to you." Seems utterly convenient for him, and inconvenient only for anyone who isn't him. So, no, that can't really be how it works in the real world, can it? If it were -- hey, did you know that I now own the municipality where you live? Bought it a couple years ago, so all your local tax payments for the last year are now due to me. I've implemented a flat-rate income tax of 60 percent. Naah, sorry, the sales contract is a secret, so you'll just have to take my word for it...

If he wants to claim ownership of this utterly nebulously-defined entity "Freenode", he has to show:

1) That he's bought it, i.e. at least the paragraphs of the contract that directly concern the sale -- or, alternatively (not sure how this works in Britain) the registration of transfer of ownership at the relevant regulatory authority; and

2) What he's bought, exactly, i.e. the paragraphs of the contract that specify what exactly was included in the sale -- or alternatively, the registration, including a listing of the assets that went into it, of the company's founding at the relevant regulatory authority. (In the latter case, if those assets are now claimed to include stuff that wasn't there to begin with, those also need to be explicitly specified.)

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#307

Post by wut42 »

rasengan wrote: post #137
wut42 wrote: post #122

Besides discussing what happened, I wonder what IS going to happen. Right now every staffer introduced by rasengan isn't known by much, seems to be very new to freenode (and even at some times, struggling with managing the services). Some of the new staffers seems to be previous operators of Rizon[1], also known as the 4chan of IRC, which is a dubious move. One of them also seems to have been fired from it[2]. On "Fr…

Probably would not be wise to guess or speculate and instead go by what I have actually said. The issue with services was because the previous team pulled our mail server and all its contents. We had to abruptly get everything in place. As for the decentralizing - that’s what I’m into and the way to do it on irc is by ending reliance on a central domain name for the connection. It’s not decided yet but is something I…

So huh, not to speculate again, but:

irc.porn -> tower.freenode.net

irc.shells.net -> passion.freenode.net

irc.bitcoin.com -> tildes.freenode.net

irc.imperialfamily.com -> no change

irc.blockexplorer.com -> dead

irc.merryjane.com -> happytree.freenode.net

irc.namebase.io -> gotham.freenode.net

irc.marijane.org -> no change

irc.letstoc.com -> niveus.freenode.net

irc.lfa.com -> ace.freenode.net

irc.voat.co -> redondo.freenode.net

If you don't want to turn freenode onto ToC, then why all the servers of ToC are now freenode servers?

(edit: formatting, added irc.voat.co which I forgot)

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