“Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#111

Post by tptacek » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:20 PM UTC

rasengan wrote: post #80

scrutinizer80 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logs posted over at https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=18926720&cid=61404... Seem to indicate that the staff were unitedly and firmly against this. It's suspicious having the entire team against one person. I still don't get the whole picture but claims when made by an entire staff usually have merit.

It is ritual defamation [1]. This has been apparently going on for quite some time [2]. [1] http://techrights.org/2021/04/29/ritual-defamation/ [2] https://phanes.silogroup.org/vae-victis/

It's pretty funny that your one-two punch here consists of accusing the Freenode operator community of defaming you, and then following up with a post that does little more than accuse them of assisting stalkers and abusers.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#112

Post by donatzsky » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:21 PM UTC

The only thing that's clear to me, after this, is that the whole governance structure was never properly defined and codified. It all seems to have been based on gentlemens agreements.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#113

Post by rasengan » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:22 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #102

rasengan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the PDF? It’s actually really clear there. Lots of defamatory and false comments were made by the former staff - which are proven to be false in the document. In terms of the ownership, it was on the main blog and website for the past 4 years [1]. Also checkout http://techrights.org/2021/05/21/freenode-facts/ Thanks! [1] https://freenode.net/news/pia-fn

I read the whole PDF and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say it doesn't really make anything clear at all. Your claim of ownership over Freenode isn't news; it's one detail that both sides of this controversy seem ready to agree on: someone named christel somehow sold you an IRC network 5 years ago, unbeknownst (until recently) to the people operating the IRC network on their own servers. What is the PDF m…

> someone named christel somehow sold you an IRC network 5 years ago, unbeknownst (until recently) to the people operating the IRC network on their own servers.

This is false [1]. The PDF clarifies a great many of the unanswered questions and verified that despite former staff attempt to say I was lying, all I did was spoke the truth and helped when asked.

Please review the PDF.

Lastly, I also run servers on freenode and have for years preceding the acquisition.

The PDF puts to rest all the falsehoods and uncertainties in my opinion but please let me know if there is something I missed!

[1] https://freenode.net/news/pia-fn

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#114

Post by blibble » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #90

Macha wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side might be christel, not the libera.chat ops.

I think it's just Christel needed money and this guy took advantage and no one or almost no one with admin/operational duties was informed. So I think the legality of this transaction was dubious. But, I don't think it matters that much anymore. People just need to get the word out that the network has a new name.

so... she told Andrew that he now is the owner of freenode, whilst simultaneously telling the staff that he wasn't?

whilst Andrew paid her (seemingly in exchange for ownership)

not a bad deal for her... if that's a correct assessment then it certainly looks like that could be considered to be fraud

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#115

Post by gerikson » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

synergy20 wrote: post #28

After reading both sides these days, somehow I feel Andrew is more trust-able and reasonable. I will stay with freenode.

I don't trust Lee, but I'm staying on Freenode too. I have an acccount on Libera. Decentralization is great.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#116

Post by ddtaylor » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

rasengan wrote: post #113

tptacek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the whole PDF and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say it doesn't really make anything clear at all. Your claim of ownership over Freenode isn't news; it's one detail that both sides of this controversy seem ready to agree on: someone named christel somehow sold you an IRC network 5 years ago, unbeknownst (until recently) to the people operating the IRC network on their own servers. What is the PDF m…

> someone named christel somehow sold you an IRC network 5 years ago, unbeknownst (until recently) to the people operating the IRC network on their own servers. This is false [1]. The PDF clarifies a great many of the unanswered questions and verified that despite former staff attempt to say I was lying, all I did was spoke the truth and helped when asked. Please review the PDF. Lastly, I also run servers on freenode…

I'm also not great at following this whole thing. When did you acquire Freenode or how?

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#117

Post by rasengan » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:26 PM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #105

rasengan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did until I was locked out of the dns and an internal reorganization and structure was put in place. The screenshots from former staff agenda is on the PDF. I don’t wish to be on irc 24/7 contrary to what people might or might not think.

There's nothing about DNS in the meeting notes that I can see.

Check the messages about the DNS in the pdf. Thanks Thomas for caring! You seldom seem to miss replying to my comments, and I appreciate it.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#118

Post by nitrix » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:27 PM UTC

tinco wrote: post #77

nitrix wrote: post #30

People that aren’t in the wrong don’t need to save face like you’re desperately trying to do. All I can say is good luck running Freenode without its staff and sponsors.

> People that aren’t in the wrong don’t need to save face like you’re desperately trying to do. That's a ridiculous statement, you should be ashamed of yourself. > All I can say is good luck running Freenode without its staff and sponsors. Do you actually have an allegation to make or are you just here to fan the flames?

Yes, let’s do that: I, and the projects I’m involved in, have moved to Libera.

I watched the drama unfold and consider myself informed enough to develop my own opinion, which coincides with that of the staff.

It’s been a completely smooth transition and don’t see how Freenode will recover without these amazing people.

As for the “ridiculous statement” and the need to feel ashamed, I leave that to future me to decide. Not you.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#119

Post by mynameisvlad » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:28 PM UTC

rasengan wrote: post #88

ilaksh wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you left out a few important things in that paragraph. There was at least one significant dispute. Something about a DNS change that would cause many people to leave. What exactly was that? Also, that Christel person or whatever their name, the fact that they apparently were kind of desperate for money at some point and so supposedly sold you something seems like you were taking advantage of them and the situ…

The DNS dispute is when I, who owned the domains, was cut off from the domains and simply asked for it back. As you can see I was approached by freenode to buy freenode please don’t twist it. Did you read the PDF with the screenshots?

"If you make me do this I'll lose half the staff" "for a pointless dns change you'll probably never do anything with"

That sounds like a specific change was requested which was controversial.

Re: “Setting the record straight on Freenode” [pdf]

#120

Post by tptacek » Fri, May 21, 2021, 4:29 PM UTC

rasengan wrote: post #113

tptacek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the whole PDF and I think I speak for a lot of people when I say it doesn't really make anything clear at all. Your claim of ownership over Freenode isn't news; it's one detail that both sides of this controversy seem ready to agree on: someone named christel somehow sold you an IRC network 5 years ago, unbeknownst (until recently) to the people operating the IRC network on their own servers. What is the PDF m…

> someone named christel somehow sold you an IRC network 5 years ago, unbeknownst (until recently) to the people operating the IRC network on their own servers. This is false [1]. The PDF clarifies a great many of the unanswered questions and verified that despite former staff attempt to say I was lying, all I did was spoke the truth and helped when asked. Please review the PDF. Lastly, I also run servers on freenode…

You keep saying this, and people keep telling you they have read the PDF. Perhaps it's helpful for you to hear this stated plainly: the PDF is inscrutable, and does not say clearly what you seem to believe it does.

The announcement you link to here is itself clear as mud and has been quoted by your opponents. It says Freenode and PIA are "joining forces", "in the same family", but "continue to operate as a not-for-profit entity with the same management". That could mean anything. In particular, the first sentence after the subhed "what's next" reads "There will be few noticeable changes in terms of day-to-day operations, the freenode project will continue to operate with much the same structure and volunteer base as it does now."