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Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

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Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#201

Post by rambojazz »

jrsj wrote: post #184
rambojazz wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pardon me, in what cases is open source more profitable than proprietary?

In the cases where you aren’t necessarily trying to profit from it directly but rather provide a platform that ultimately makes you more money. Or really for any case where you aren’t selling the software, because you’re able to reduce the cost of development and maintenance.

What do you mean exactly? Do you mean when offering a service built on open source software, which is developed by some 3rd party groups/communities/organizations?

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#202

Post by smazga »

skohan wrote: post #148

This is the kind of thing which makes me roll my eyes when people try to argue that the "New Microsoft(tm)" is actually benevolent and developer friendly, and I should be happy about things like them acquiring Github.

I just installed Windows again for the first time in 20 years (certain games still won’t run on anything else) and after all the talk of how much things have improved, I was shocked at just had bad it is.

It’s almost dystopian how tracked and marketed I feel. I think I finally have all the switches flipped that I need to stop things popping up in my face, but goodness.

They’re the same as they ever were.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#203

Post by hvidgaard »

skohan wrote: post #196
hvidgaard wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will never call a corporation benevolent, but they certainly are developer friendly right now. Opening the source of many of their frameworks and tools have aided us in debugging many times. It's also possible to get in contact with their developers directly through github. I don't really feel one way or another regarding their Github purchase. If not Microsoft, then someone else. Right now Microsoft seems like a l…

I just think there can be a lot of perverse interests at play when a major software vendor also owns the place where all the code lives. For instance, VSCodium is not available as a native download for M1 processors because GitHub Actions don’t support M1 yet. Would Microsoft potentially delay supporting CI/CD for M1 because it’s not in their strategic best interest to support Mac as a development platform? It’s not…

To be fair, unless Apple collaborated with Microsoft before the launch, it's not trivial to add that as a target to the pipeline in a production ready environment. I'm not even sure Apple allows any virtualized instance which poses a major impediment to implementing this. One can always use a self hosted runner to make it work.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#204

Post by jrsj »

rambojazz wrote: post #201
jrsj wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the cases where you aren’t necessarily trying to profit from it directly but rather provide a platform that ultimately makes you more money. Or really for any case where you aren’t selling the software, because you’re able to reduce the cost of development and maintenance.

What do you mean exactly? Do you mean when offering a service built on open source software, which is developed by some 3rd party groups/communities/organizations?

.NET Core is a great example. Microsoft directly benefits from gaining market share among developers — it helps them sell Azure, etc. Open sourcing it was absolutely necessary to remain competitive. They did it because it’s the right business decision.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#205

Post by jrsj »

dahart wrote: post #198
jrsj wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I remember that, I was referring to the browser war happening now. The old IE days aren’t even relevant to what’s happening now though. Except maybe to show that the only reason Microsoft even had to fight that case in the first place is that they weren’t lobbying the government as much as they “should” have.

> The old IE days aren’t even relevant to what’s happening now though. Why do you say that? MSFT has been engaging in the same behavior for 30 years, trying to force people to use their browser by bundling the browser and default browsing behaviors into the OS. Why does this feel any different than what was happening in 1995? It seems exactly the same to me. Google brought new competition into the middle of an ongoin…

Because before Google got involved, an independent third party was actually winning & Microsoft had no chance of regaining dominance in that space.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#207

Post by atatatat »

whyoh wrote: post #118
jfax wrote: post #104

Adware has been a recurring issue on Windows since XP at least. I remember I used to get pop-ups for free smileys and mouse cursors. Of course, it's encouraged by Microsoft now.

>it's encouraged by Microsoft now. "If you can't beat them, join them." The cynicism with which Microsoft embraced this path is sickening.

See: their subsidizing the least bad PC File Mover software thingy.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#208

Post by atatatat »

growse wrote: post #119
tempodox wrote: post #110

The last two Windows updates I let happen force-installed Edge. I removed it afterwards with a helper tool. After it happened the second time in a row, I deactivated Windows updates. Microsoft can go whistle. Should I ever get into trouble for not having updated Windows, I'll trash the VM and restore from a backup. That's a suboptimal solution to be sure, but I don't know how else to fend off this shit.

The problem with this is that when your VM unwittingly become part of a botnet, you're now a cost to everyone else . Either keep your OS up to date, or use a different one. Edit or keep it off the internet.

> use a different one

Patched stock Debian Linux is less secure than a 6mo out of date W10 machine: change my view.

Re: Windows 10 nagging users with Bing advertisements (push alerts)

#209

Post by steelframe »

Macha wrote: post #8

I'm sick of tech companies giving the only way to decline their preferred approach as "maybe later". No, I'm sure I don't want Bing or Edge next month either. If I change my mind I'm perfectly capable of finding the setting and even if I wasn't I'm sure it's only a DDG (or Bing I guess) search away to docs I'm almost certain you will have

> I'm sick of tech companies giving the only way to decline their preferred approach as "maybe later".

I've seen this rehashed through the years. Having worked at 4 different tech companies now, I think I can reconstruct why this happens.

UX: "Okay team, here's the opt-in dialog box."

PM: "Wait, the buttons say 'Yes' and 'No.' We don't want people to click 'No' because my perf and promo is tied to the number of people who click 'Yes.' Look, what if they want to change their minds later? Or what if they want to just think about it and then make a decision to enable my team's feature tomorrow? Are we just going to let those numbers slip by?"

UX: "Uh, well, I suppose we could add a third button, 'Maybe later.'"

PM: "THREE buttons?? Are you kidding me? That's too many. Have you even read the book Essentialism, bro? What if they accidentally click 'No' when they really want to just decide later? Or what if we change the feature enough that we can justify prompting them again with the updated version of the feature? If they clicked 'No' then they might feel that we're harassing them or something with another prompt later on."

UX: "Well, maybe we should err on the side of respecting the user's wishes. Sure, we might give up some of the engagement numbers..."

PM: "NNNGNNGGGHHPHHHTHTTTTHHHHHHHH WHAAAAAT!?!? MY BONUUUUUUS"

UX: "Okay okay okay, how about if we just make the 'No' and 'Maybe later?'"

PM: "Hmmm, that's sort of suggestive too. It might make someone who's thinking 'No' to start thinking 'Maybe later' because that's what they read. I like it. And can we make the 'Yes' sound a little less noncommittal while we're at it? Make it a little easier to click on? Maybe something chirpy and agreeable, like 'Sure!' People love being agreeable, don't they? Don't you?"

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