Everyones angry at Denmark for enabling, but US did the spying... Not saying that clears DK, but at least 90% of the outrage should be directed there.
said the Danish intelligence guy hoping to shift the blame
NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
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Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#142Listen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying. Just like American torture is good torture, because we only torture the bad guys.
And important: Don't torture bad guy on US territory because that would be illegal too ;)
Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#143Everyones angry at Denmark for enabling, but US did the spying... Not saying that clears DK, but at least 90% of the outrage should be directed there.
It was a huge scandal back then. But it already was one. The new part is that Denmark enabled them.
And I would say it had a decent part in the Anti-USA sentiment in Germany.
Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#144This all boils down to the question of how to reign in the administrative state, and the problem here is that no one really wants to reign it in, they want to control it and point it in the direction they prefer, that is, they want an extra-judicial, extra-legislative source of power to exist, but just not do any of the things they don't like. But I don't think this is possible, once you have an administrative state,…
Private institutions are even less accountable. I don’t see an alternative for advanced civilization right now.
Every organization needs mechanisms to root out corruption, not just hope and prayers. Transparency, accountability, rule of law are just the start. You need to design checks and balances, internal policing mechanisms, accounting for every dollar, processes to eliminate conflicts of interest, self-dealing, cronyism, etc.
Sadly, it seems that these institutions are prone to a kind of rot that means you can't just set them up once and forget. You need constant vigilance against these institutions corrupting themselves. Vigilance requires attention, not just from officials, but from journalists, media, the public. We're all so damn distracted that things are now rotting faster than ever.
Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
And how's thats working out so far?
Actually it was going reasonably well for 2 or 3 centuries, the mass spying is a recent development. Thus the correct question to ask is "why/how did we break the system that used to work"
The answer is actually because we spent several years with the entire country dedicated tona total war effort in the face of an enemy that was devoted to our total and absolute extinction and subjugation.
Following that rather than returning to a peacetime country and disbanding the associated military structure it was instead repurposed for a cold war in the face of another enemy that had sworn themselves to our complete and absolute destruction and which had the capability to do so. In the face of such constant risk of extinction almost any measure was seen acceptable to counteract the threat.
However after about 60 years the threat disappeared but the massive institutions built up to combat the threat then needed to continue to justify it's existence as careers and lives had been built upon counteracting the Red menance. Unfortunately these institutions did not cease to exist and continued the same tactics that it was profecient in despite the threat to the existence of the nation.
That's basically it in a nutshell.
Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
And how's thats working out so far?
Actually it was going reasonably well for 2 or 3 centuries, the mass spying is a recent development. Thus the correct question to ask is "why/how did we break the system that used to work"
Lol. Mass spying is far from recent. Mail has been spied upon for centuries in the US. Sending agents to spy on political groups too. I'm never sure exactly when this ideal time was, that time before government got evil, but I suspect it never really existed.
Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually it was going reasonably well for 2 or 3 centuries, the mass spying is a recent development. Thus the correct question to ask is "why/how did we break the system that used to work"
The answer is actually because we spent several years with the entire country dedicated tona total war effort in the face of an enemy that was devoted to our total and absolute extinction and subjugation. Following that rather than returning to a peacetime country and disbanding the associated military structure it was instead repurposed for a cold war in the face of another enemy that had sworn themselves to our com…
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Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually it was going reasonably well for 2 or 3 centuries, the mass spying is a recent development. Thus the correct question to ask is "why/how did we break the system that used to work"
Lol. Mass spying is far from recent. Mail has been spied upon for centuries in the US. Sending agents to spy on political groups too. I'm never sure exactly when this ideal time was, that time before government got evil, but I suspect it never really existed.
Spying on someone's mail is well regulated, and is not 'Mass' as defined by any reasonabke person.
Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report
#149Everyones angry at Denmark for enabling, but US did the spying... Not saying that clears DK, but at least 90% of the outrage should be directed there.
US is outside and can spy whatever they want, Denmark on the other way is "in theory" part of the European-Family, if a "friend" sells you out to someone else, who is the traitor?
Both