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NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

bbc.com

111–120 of 182 posts

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#111

The Five Eyes have built a sufficiently valuable asset that the security services of other rich countries all want in. Denmark is in Nine Eyes, so they’ll happily sell out members of Fourteen Eyes (like Germany) to get closer into the circle.

You just assume that every electronic communication is dragneted now. Your phone, your car radio's bluetooth radio, toll transponder, alpr, everything. What I like about the signals-intelligence-only focus is that I can leave my phone at home, hop on an ebike with a legally mandated helmet obscuring my face from cameras, and I'm completely invisible to the state. I just don't exist. Unlike East Germany there's no HUM…

[deleted]

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#112
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic. Okay, I'll help you: By doing this shit, the US is losing goodwill and Germans will align more with Russia, e.g. by building pipelines instead of buying US gas. Russia is a long-term threat to the expansion plans of the EU and is hindering us at creating a true union across all of Europe. The US is a threat to our economy. China is becoming our b…

Syria civil war was a CIA operation to oust Bashar al-Assad. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timber_Sycamore Libya civil war also probably CIA. And then you have Iraq. These wars created multiple migration crises to Europe. And not only that, by funding and training rebels in Syria it lead to a hotbed for terrorist, some of these terrorist slipped into Europe and committed terrorist attacks, like the Paris 2015 attacks…

If it was, it certainly was a failed CIA operation.

No but honestly: while the US had some interest with the Kurds, they didn't engage to cause the Syrian civil war nor did they were able to stop Russia from gaining influence.

And I am not really sure if your mixing up ISIS supporters in your narrative. I haven't heard that they were links to the CIA for any terror in Europe connected to Syria.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#113

I'm unsure what of this information is new. It sounds like the EU just found nine sources to confirm one aspect of the Snowden leak? Were people ever really doubting the authenticity of those documents? I'm sure some people have, but it never seemed like a common realistic belief.

I think this is more of "and they keep doing it!" story rather than claims for new behaviour.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no reason why this should not hold for spying and policing agencies Isn't that what democracies call "constitution"? Something that protects citizens' rights again wrong-doing of powerful entities including legislators and the state itself?

And how's thats working out so far?

Democracy is the best we have for the people. But while the theory is sound, the practical implementation is usually flawed.

The people are "in power" just for that day while they're giving their blessing to their representative. After this, as long as things aren't too abrupt and disadvantage the regular person obviously enough to trigger a violent response, that representative can pretty much represent and defend any other point of view. Usually the one from the otherwise equal but not quite equal, much richer person. And with education being on the bottom of everyone's list, it just gets easier to cover these things up.

For things that concern interests far from home it's even easier. Freedom also means you're free to pump as much one sided information as possible. So as long as one can flood the people with Middle Eastern terrorism, Russian hackers, or Chinese human rights abuses, who's going to care about the home team doing the same even at home?

Superficially democracy is alive and well but it's like religion, most people observe it only in theory and when it matters to them personally. And when it does matter to them, it doesn't matter to enough other people. Which is why most talking points don't have a strong majority, and they're mostly dealt in a compromising way, which makes everyone equally unhappy (except a very few).

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#115
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Missing a few steps between "having an administrative state" and "spy on everyone" there, buddy.

Just wait until you learn what “government” means in Latin :p

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/guberno#Latin

According to Wiktionary, it seems to come from steering a ship.

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so glad your government is helping to keep us safe! To express my gratitude I'll help boost your economy with some ad revenue today and aid the good fight. The profits should trickle down to you eventually. On a more serious note, I think (possibly in my naive ignorance) the geopolitical implications are quite different. I have the impression that American cultural influence has become increasingly prevalent thro…

> I'm not sure to what extent I should consider this to be problematic. Okay, I'll help you: By doing this shit, the US is losing goodwill and Germans will align more with Russia, e.g. by building pipelines instead of buying US gas. Russia is a long-term threat to the expansion plans of the EU and is hindering us at creating a true union across all of Europe. The US is a threat to our economy. China is becoming our b…

You forgot to mention Turkey

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#117

Listen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying. Just like American torture is good torture, because we only torture the bad guys.

> Listen Europe, this is good spying though. Not Huawei 5G spying.

IMHO there is a difference between the two.

In one case you (hopefully) have good, secure infrastructure for a society's general needs. In the other you (potentially) have fragile infrastructure that may not be under your control.

I personally don't have too much of a problem with governments doing targeted operations at certain individuals, especially if they are important members of other governments.

Doing large-scale dragnets that catch innocent people who pose no risk or do not have any strategic/tactical value to your goals is something else. (Which the NSA has been guilty of doing in the past.)

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#118

I'm unsure what of this information is new. It sounds like the EU just found nine sources to confirm one aspect of the Snowden leak? Were people ever really doubting the authenticity of those documents? I'm sure some people have, but it never seemed like a common realistic belief.

I think this is more of "and they keep doing it!" story rather than claims for new behaviour.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean. The story says they keep doing it but has no new examples of them doing it?

Re: NSA spying row: Denmark helped US gather data on European officials, says report

#119
post #104
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the nuclear arsenal which sits on your side. Most of Europe has effectively outsourced its military defence to the Americans with some plain, visible costs (the at least 2% of GDP in military expenditure the previous US president was so keen about) and, more importantly, there are also some other, hidden costs, like the Assange scandal and stuff like this Danish - NSA cooperation.

>Most of Europe has effectively outsourced its military defence to the Americans That is a very American point of view. Many Europeans see it more as "The US pay a bigger part than we do in bolstering American control of the western world", which is exactly as it should be. IMO the US should pay exactly 100% of the bill for its own defense and enforcement of its power projection. The US does this to protect the US, n…

> Many Europeans see it more as "The US pay a bigger part than we do in bolstering American control of the western world", which is exactly as it should be. IMO the US should pay exactly 100% of the bill for its own defense and enforcement of its power projection.

You're not wrong, but NATO members have also agreed to spend 2% of their GDP on defence. Which few do.

> In 2006, NATO Defence Ministers agreed to commit a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to defence spending to continue to ensure the Alliance’s military readiness.

* https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_67655.htm

If anyone wants to spend more than that, like the US does, that's something else.

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