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In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

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Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#71

Post by enriquto »

josephcsible wrote: post #50
rsj_hn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cartels only exist because of its illegality. Wait, what? You are saying there are no cartels in enterprises where the underlying good is legal? For example, oil cartels don't exist? The cartel will exist if the existance of the cartel causes it to make more money than would otherwise be the case. You should read about all the knee cappings and dirty dealings standard oil did in the U.S. When the US had mob problem…

> For example, oil cartels don't exist? Oil cartels are a different kind of cartel. They don't go around casually murdering their rivals, let alone innocent people as acceptable collateral damage.

they certainly do. Ever heard of saudi arabia? They also murder people all over the world, and they are much, much powerful than the petty drug cartels of mexico.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#72

Post by totalZero »

boterock wrote: post #11

About that last sentence: "former U.S. Ambassador [...] said in April that López Obrador views the fight against drug cartels as a distraction ... So he has basically adopted an agenda of a pretty laissez-faire attitude towards them, which is pretty troubling to our government, obviously.” Not from Mexico, but from Colombia, where we also have a very hard time with drugs. The real problem with drugs has never been he…

Exploitation in the drug market happens in the reverse of what you think. The target market is the first world, because the product has maximal value there.

The positive externalities are all gained by the producer countries. Traffickers and coca producers have even risen to become major politicians in places like Venezuela and Bolivia. Meanwhile, negative externalities -- crime, addiction, and so forth -- get distributed to the consumer countries.

The product is addictive, so you can't exactly be surprised that consumers continue to buy it. It is all too common in Latin America to hear people complain about the big bad USA, but that line of reasoning is casual and has its limitations.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#73

Post by edgyquant »

darkhorse22 wrote: post #39
dvt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were running things in Mexico I would legalize or decriminalize all drugs This is a naïve "Bernie bro"-style take. What do you with cartel turf wars? Legalize murder? The problem is not only complex on a local scale (city or country), but there are geopolitical pressures at play as well. Cartels tend to be very populist, often funneling money back in their communities making them (paradoxically) better. On the…

What does "Bernie bro" add to this?

Perhaps a better term would be populist-tier.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#74

Post by edgyquant »

zionic wrote: post #60
dvt wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were running things in Mexico I would legalize or decriminalize all drugs This is a naïve "Bernie bro"-style take. What do you with cartel turf wars? Legalize murder? The problem is not only complex on a local scale (city or country), but there are geopolitical pressures at play as well. Cartels tend to be very populist, often funneling money back in their communities making them (paradoxically) better. On the…

These cartel bosses have fancy cars and luxurious homes. We could drone them all day every day if we wanted, but we don’t because they are employees of our intelligence services. They pay their tribute and they get to be rich, while “our” side gets a fat black budget not accountable to congress. The banks who launder the money only get fees and no jail time because they are working under the table for the same agenci…

This is a serious accusation you have no proof of, it doesn’t belong here.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#75

Post by hungryforcodes »

qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #31

I'm reminded of this recent viral Youtube which depicts what is apparently a routine occurrence in South Africa: A professional gang, armed with heavy caliber weapons, executes a sophisticated highway ambush in an attempt to capture a vehicle loaded with cell phones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAvqDF3Wujc I watched an interview with Leo Prinsloo, the star of the video. He mentioned that although this incident we…

When I lived in the Philippines a couple of years ago, Duterte was extremely popular on the street for this reason. He basically "cleaned the place up", when I asked people about it.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#76

Post by Buge »

qPM9l3XJrF wrote: post #36
alex-wallish wrote: post #3

why do humans do this sort of thing?

Part of what's going on in Mexico is that the cartels have spread romanticized images of themselves to the point where many Mexican youngsters actually aspire to cartel life. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcocorrido

Music promoting crime and kids aspiring to that life isn't a purely Cartel thing unfortunately. Gangster rap and drill music often promote crime.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#77

Post by rsj_hn »

NegativeLatency wrote: post #49
rsj_hn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cartels only exist because of its illegality. Wait, what? You are saying there are no cartels in enterprises where the underlying good is legal? For example, oil cartels don't exist? The cartel will exist if the existance of the cartel causes it to make more money than would otherwise be the case. You should read about all the knee cappings and dirty dealings standard oil did in the U.S. When the US had mob problem…

Parent mean “[Drug] Cartels” not all cartels

the cartels in mexico are just powerful organized crime syndicates, involved in oil theft, human trafficking, local elections, various rackets, as well of course as drug smuggling. They would still fight for territory and control of key industries and would still be a state unto themselves.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#78

Post by edgyquant »

haolez wrote: post #5
ALittleLight wrote: post #4

If I were running things in Mexico I would legalize or decriminalize all drugs. Setup compounds to securely house the police forces. Change the policy to "balazos, muchos balazos".

The politicians are probably much less powerful than the cartels (if they are not allies). To try to pass a bill to decriminalize all drugs would probably fail and get you killed.

Legalizing it in Mexico isn’t a solution since they aren’t selling to Mexican citizens for most of their profit. America and Europe are large, developed economies with wealthy middle/upper classes who like to do coke. I’m sure crack cocaine makes up a decent chunk too but I can’t imagine that the poor that partake in that make up even close of the same percentage as the wealthy coke consumers.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#79

Post by ilaksh »

alex-wallish wrote: post #3

why do humans do this sort of thing?

I think it comes down to economics. Countries are not islands. Poor countries and poor neighborhoods create a situation where people legitimatize criminal gangs. Many men may see that as the only way to gain any power.

In a country with more money, more opportunities and a vietual police and military monopoly on force the situation is different. We have many, many prisons in America. But think about what it was like in the prohibition era. I would argue that the biggest difference was actually economic.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#80

Post by observr9 »

Will this trend lead to fewer and fewer people joining law enforcement, which would further weaken the government?

Regarding whether this constitutes a "failed state", I'd say it depends on how bad this gets.

Similar to the concept of "peaceful transfer of power", there also needs to be a relatively peaceful maintenance of power.

Politicians, judges and law enforcement are the very people who constitute a functional government. If, going forward, a certain threshold of the "good guys" start to opt out of joining their own governing system (in one of those capacities) for fear of having themselves and their families murdered, then the country becomes a failed state.

How can other countries prevent that from happening to them, especially Mexico's neighbors?

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