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In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

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Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#31
I'm reminded of this recent viral Youtube which depicts what is apparently a routine occurrence in South Africa: A professional gang, armed with heavy caliber weapons, executes a sophisticated highway ambush in an attempt to capture a vehicle loaded with cell phones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAvqDF3Wujc

I watched an interview with Leo Prinsloo, the star of the video. He mentioned that although this incident went viral, it is actually a common occurrence in South Africa, and many gangs have ex-police and ex-military members. Unsurprisingly the police don't provide effective protection against these professionalized gangs, creating the need for private security guards like Prinsloo.

In the US, we are used to thinking of "crime" as just another political issue. But observing countries like Mexico and South Africa, where gangs and police forces have started to merge, has helped me realize that there are important nonlinear effects.

Once "crime" gets bad enough, the state begins to lose its monopoly on force, and I'm not sure it is possible to recover from that. I'm starting to understand why people in the Philippines might support politicians such as Rodrigo Duterte who disregard due process--at a certain point, it becomes more important for the state security forces to win than for them to play fair.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#33

About that last sentence: "former U.S. Ambassador [...] said in April that López Obrador views the fight against drug cartels as a distraction ... So he has basically adopted an agenda of a pretty laissez-faire attitude towards them, which is pretty troubling to our government, obviously.” Not from Mexico, but from Colombia, where we also have a very hard time with drugs. The real problem with drugs has never been he…

> the US which always pushed us to fight drugs from this side, while they don't seem to do much from their side Isn't the typical complaint that the US does too much to fight drugs?

Maybe they do the same that politicians do here... they keep the cops busy grabbing individuals, but they turn a blind eye to the shipments of tons that are sent via airplanes that could be intercepted easily. In the end everyone knows that it is a deal between traffickers and politicians.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#34
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I were running things in Mexico I would legalize or decriminalize all drugs This is a naïve "Bernie bro"-style take. What do you with cartel turf wars? Legalize murder? The problem is not only complex on a local scale (city or country), but there are geopolitical pressures at play as well. Cartels tend to be very populist, often funneling money back in their communities making them (paradoxically) better. On the…

Cartels only exist because of its illegality. Same reason alcohol smuggling gangsters existed during the US prohibition era.

> Cartels only exist because of its illegality.

Wait, what? You are saying there are no cartels in enterprises where the underlying good is legal? For example, oil cartels don't exist? The cartel will exist if the existance of the cartel causes it to make more money than would otherwise be the case. You should read about all the knee cappings and dirty dealings standard oil did in the U.S. When the US had mob problems, yes the mob was involved in prostitution and gambling but it was also involved in port unloading, ice delivery, meat packing, unions, and plenty of other legal goods/activities. Many of the organized crime issues the US struggled with were related to fixing elections and paying off city workers, particularly in big east coast cities like NY, Boston, and Chicago, where loyalty to the machine meant city contracts, city jobs, etc. There was fixing of construction contracts, service contracts, garbage delivery, etc. All of these goods/services were legal.

Cartels are just organized crime, and what causes an end to cartels is rule of law. As long as there is no rule of law, it will always be more profitable for someone to break into a store and take something than to obtain it legally, and it will always be more profitable to burn down a rival company's factory than to outsell the factory by lowering your price, and it will always be more profitable to seize market share with a gun than with a better product and to extract payments by offering protection to small businesses who can't rely on the police to protect them because there is no rule of law. The idea that a country without proper rule of law can get rid of organized crime by legalizing everything they do seems pretty far fetched. The Sicilian mafia existed because of a lack of rule of law, not because of drugs. It took up drugs, it took up other activities when the opportunity arose, but it far predated them. Mexico has a rule of law problem and a corruption problem, and really a weak central government problem. Fix that, and cartels can be brought under control.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

blame drug addicted garbage that keep shoving that shit up their noses.

I think drug users should be called out for supporting this violent industry similar to how drunk drivers, sexual harassers, and racists are social pariahs

Of course the standard exclusion will apply if you’re rich and powerful.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#36

why do humans do this sort of thing?

Part of what's going on in Mexico is that the cartels have spread romanticized images of themselves to the point where many Mexican youngsters actually aspire to cartel life. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcocorrido

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#38
post #26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason cartels need to murder people at all is because the business is illegal and there is no justice system to mediate disputes. F500 CEOs aren't doing drive-bys on each other over patent infringements because they can just sue.

The big mistake you're making is that legalising it also magically brings all the infrastructure to neuter the cartels.

Of course it doesn't, they just transfer to other illegal activities, see: bootlegging by organized crime during prohibition.

The problem the cartels will face is that there is no other business that makes as much money, and it would require a retool of the entire organization (or scale up, at a minimum) to get back to even a fraction of their power.

Cartels are not some unstoppable juggernaut: they run on capital, same as every other business. No money for bribes & no money for foot soldiers == no more cartel at a recognizable scale.

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#39
post #9

If I were running things in Mexico I would legalize or decriminalize all drugs. Setup compounds to securely house the police forces. Change the policy to "balazos, muchos balazos".

> If I were running things in Mexico I would legalize or decriminalize all drugs This is a naïve "Bernie bro"-style take. What do you with cartel turf wars? Legalize murder? The problem is not only complex on a local scale (city or country), but there are geopolitical pressures at play as well. Cartels tend to be very populist, often funneling money back in their communities making them (paradoxically) better. On the…

What does "Bernie bro" add to this?

Re: In Mexico, cartels are hunting down police at their homes

#40

I'm reminded of this recent viral Youtube which depicts what is apparently a routine occurrence in South Africa: A professional gang, armed with heavy caliber weapons, executes a sophisticated highway ambush in an attempt to capture a vehicle loaded with cell phones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAvqDF3Wujc I watched an interview with Leo Prinsloo, the star of the video. He mentioned that although this incident we…

Haha, so you think the government which has been robbing us blind at every turn needs to win?

Taxation is robbery, I do not consent to my hard earned money being spent on experimental injections and wars.

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