Overkill objects for everyday life • Hacker News Board

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#521

Post by SilverRed » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

tharkun__ wrote: post #520

SilverRed wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was more of a culture of long lived product lines. IKEA is shockingly good at this. I had a draw from the Malm product line from 15 years ago, then 5 years ago I got the bed frame in the same set and just now I got another one of the draws and they all fit together and look uniform because their product lines have been mostly the same for decades. If I break something or need more bits, I can always go b…

I would've agreed with you on this until recently. Tried to get an extra piece for something but they no longer make that 'color'. Then had the same issue trying to buy another malm piece to match the rest of the bed room. No dice, no longer making that fake wood facing and replaced it with a slightly different one. Different enough to look out of place.

Yeah fair enough. I just have the white one which seems to have carried on.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#522

Post by bombcar » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #461

MereInterest wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moreover, consumer items beyond a price point are both very well made and backed by long term warranties anyway. Except that there isn't a good way to distinguish between something that is expensive because it has quality construction and something that is expensive because it is a brand name. Searching for information online is nigh-useless due to aggressive SEO on the part of advertisers. Sometimes I can get luck…

This is what consumers' associations do all day. You usually have to pay to read their research, which helps them maintain their independence.

They can be notoriously bad at their job however - an example can be found in toilet testing, as they do weird substitutes that don’t match actually plugging the thing with toilet paper. Who cares how many golf balls it flushes?

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#523

Post by ReptileMan » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:37 AM UTC

IgorPartola wrote: post #341

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

If you chip your knife you just put it to the stones to repair.

And hobarts are industry standard mixers for the food industry that vary in size from 5L to volcanic caldera. But they are built like a tank and easy to repair with plenty of easy to find spare parts. A lot of bakeries that make really high end stuff probably have the exact same hobart inside. Probably not that ancient as the one on the pic, but those things barely changed from their inception.

And with interest of cooking increasing a lot of restaurant gear is finding its way into home kitchens. Nothing sears a steak indoors better 3500W induction hob with big cast iron skillet on top.

And if cooking on a wok - having 120k BTU burner makes it much more pleasant and smooth experience.

Interestingly with gas burner efficiency - 120k BTU in gas are just a tad more powerful than the 3.5kw induction.

There is good reason why Alton Brown always says to obtain things from hardware and restaurant supply store.

And let's say in consumer ovens that are not built to gastronorm or hotel pan specs finding additional trays, sheets, grills etc that fit is PITA.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#524

Post by neonological » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:38 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #451

neonological wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you watch the video? It's not just about cheap materials. It's literal design decisions made for the express reason so that the product will fail. The iphone not having a replaceable battery is a design decision, it doesn't make the phone cheaper. You are taking two independent phenomenons and trying to group them together as if they are the same phenomenon. Yes making a product cheaper has the side effect of red…

I did watch it. (And I have watched it once before years ago.) Design is also an engineering constraint. All of these constraints are interconnected. None are wholly independent. The “fashion” argument is particularly silly. Fashion and style are concepts that have existed as a part of human nature longer than manufacturing, corporations, or even money itself have even existed. Having the latest flashy accessories to…

> Design is also an engineering constraint. All of these constraints are interconnected. None are wholly independent.

Did I say they weren't interdependent? My response to you LITERALLY stated an interdependency.

Also when does "design" being an engineering constraint have to do with anything? Are you talking about aesthetic design choices made by an artist/product designer that an engineer has to take into account? You should be more specific because engineers "design" solutions around constraints as well, and the statement makes no sense when viewed from the engineering perspective.

>The “fashion” argument is particularly silly. Fashion and style are concepts that have existed as a part of human nature longer than manufacturing, corporations, or even money itself have even existed.

What fashion argument? You say the "fashion" argument is "silly" but I'm over here thinking, what "fashion" argument? I NEVER made such an argument. What's silly here is that you're talking about some weird imaginary tangent that I never even touched upon.

If you actually did watch that video or even read my posts I'm thinking you read it really quickly and you skimmed that video. I think you skipped some words and sentences and made a huge assumptions about what I'm talking about.

>

The part of my response that you didn't even address is that I'm saying FAILURE is engineered into the design DELIBERATELY. It's not a side effect of creating a cheaper product. It's a actual design choice making the consumer more likely to buy a new product.

You realize that the filament for those bulbs weren't picked because the filament was cheaper. A deliberate R&D effort was created to pick filaments that were roughly the same cost but failed quicker. That's counter to your entire argument. R&D costs money so costs are actually INCREASED to make the product fail quicker.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#525

Post by bombcar » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:43 AM UTC

antisceptic wrote: post #430

IgorPartola wrote: post #341

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

I don't think the "military" grade stuff is meant to last considerably longer. It's mostly geared at extreme duty cycles. How often will you use a mixer if you're not a baker, once a week? An industrial piece of equipment is intended to be used nearly all the time, and there's impressive engineering that goes into handling that use case. Which I think was the point of TFA: he wants to show everyone he appreciates ove…

This is the important distinction - and the key is finding heavy duty equipment that has maintenance schedules based on usage not on clock-hours. Having to oil and maintain something that is used once a week will quickly become annoying.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#526

Post by ReptileMan » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

BostonEnginerd wrote: post #489

IgorPartola wrote: post #341

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

I think one good strategy is to buy the highest volume product -- the more of a widget someone makes, the better they are at it. For example, a Ford Focus or Chevy Malibu is a lot more reliable and cheaper to maintain than a fancier and more fun car. Loads of third party parts, etc. Regarding the mixer, I understand they changed the gears to plastic so they would strip without damaging the motor. Easier to replace a…

Actually Hobart and Kitchen aid always had a plastic gear with the purpose of being a fuse if some brainiac decided to make a rocky road icecream with real gravel. What kitchen aid did to decrease their quality was hosting the gear assembly in non metal housing - so you could fuck up your mixer body which makes it harder to repair.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#527

Post by ReptileMan » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:52 AM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #353

IgorPartola wrote: post #341

I will postulate an opposing view to TFA: Quality consumer goods are better in two key areas. First, they are replaceable. I don’t want a military grade mixer in my kitchen if getting a broken whisk or motor on it is going to require me hunting all over eBay for the specific part hoping it’s available. I was very excited at one point about the idea of getting a commercial dishwasher that can run a load of dishes in l…

Moreover, consumer items beyond a price point are both very well made and backed by long term warranties anyway. Paying a bit more for a better item which can be repaired or serviced for a very long time makes it cheaper in the long run in my experience, because you buy it once and for life. I love "overkill items for everyday life" point of view, but it comes with trade-offs for noise, ergonomics, size, replaceabili…

I mean I love Victorinoxes, but 35 euro kitchen knife is far from high end. Although theirs and Morakniv Frost have surprisingly good steel and HT for the price and they can get sharp - they are the cheapest real knives in the kitchen (kiwi and some chinesse cleavers excluded), not high end stuff.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#528

Post by bombcar » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

spockz wrote: post #201

Wistar wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been, over-time, retro-fitting my home with pro/commercial-grade infrastructure items such as: quarter-turn marine-grade ball valves for the water-main; toilets, clothes washer, fridge and dishwasher; recessed sillcock valves; outdoor hose reels and hoses; sprinklers (this is a biggie as so many sprinklers are one-season junk); heavy-duty light switches; ceiling fans (the wonderful Big-Ass fans stuff); locks a…

Awesome idea! How do you distinguish professional vs overpriced normal stuff? For example, Festool, Makita, and DeWalt offer awesome products but are very pricy. All the tools from the DIY shops are rubbish. Things from Bosch are slightly better. But these are all expensive. Meanwhile, the tools from Lidl around €30-50 price point are quite cool.

I find a useful indicator is to look at factory out of warranty repair pricing.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#529

Post by bombcar » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

Wistar wrote: post #367

na85 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested in a site like that, as I have a similar appreciation for high-quality stuff that's built to last. What kind of dishwasher/fridge/laundry appliances did you end up getting?

I apologize as I wasn't clear enough: I was not focused on the appliances themselves but, rather, the water valves, and hoses, used to supply the water. The small but really important stuff. Crummy valves break. Most builders use the cheapest crap they can get. They save a couple thousand dollars building a house but replacing the $2 crap can sometimes cost a fortune. One of the worst offenses I have had to deal with…

These are the ones that are really annoying because the cost difference is so minimal between the cheap junk and the good quality stuff, and most of the cost is the installation.

Re: Overkill objects for everyday life

#530

Post by ggm » Mon, May 31, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

Basically, 99% of everyone reading this, their laptop is this but wrapped up.

Nobody "needs" a solid aluminium billet NMC ground down to high tolerance shape mac). The ThinkPad experience, is defined as a sell-job on "you need this"