Live data from Hacker News

It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

twitter.com

681–690 of 1001 posts

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#681
> Cryptocurrency is sustained by a mix of money laundering, vaporware, fraud, ransomware, gambling, and delusion.

Correction: ignoring speculation, the base asset-value of bog-standard crypto securities (i.e. the ones that don't "do" anything other than get traded around) is sustained by a mix of:

• capital flight (in countries where the routes for regular ForEx conversions have been restricted)

• financial "regulatory sandbox" instruments development, i.e. the ecosystem built on "security tokens." (This, as it turns out, is mostly being built out by the existing financial sector.)

• grey- or black-market purchases — i.e. purchases illegal for either the buyer or seller according to their local jurisdiction. (Which doesn't usually mean criminal activity as you'd think of it, but rather is most often a routing-around of brain-damaged legal codes, e.g. FDA bans of non-dangerous drugs. I have a friend who's trans, who found it impossible to get prescribed hormones where they live — but got them easily on the dark web! Another friend, who had gone through every step in the workflow to solving their chronic illness and come up short, used crypto to buy a Russian medication that doesn't exist domestically, and it solved everything for them. Etc.)

• facilitation of trade in environments with untrustworthy civic financial infrastructure, e.g. Venezuela

• facilitation of trade between private citizens of countries that actively attempt to prevent trade with one-another, e.g. countries who have trade embargoes, or even countries who are at war

Note the common theme: cryptocurrencies enable people to enter into trade with one-another when one or more governments don't want to enable that trade, or even want to actively prevent that trade. That's the "base value" that speculation on cryptocurrency is a multiplier on top of. Cryptocurrencies route around embargoes/tarrifs/etc. in the same way that the Internet routes around downed links.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#682
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? For a payments system, the fact that all transactions are final is pretty bad. I'd say this, by itself, makes the system unusable in the real world.

I observe the exact opposite: people do not like accepting the risk of payments that can be reversed because the buyer does a chargeback scam, or used a hacked paypal account. Multisig escrow is also better in every way if people want to involve a third party in case of a dispute

Sellers do not want, but buyers have the money and hence the power so sellers mostly just have to deal with it.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#683
post #589
post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What problem does Bitcoin solve?

Reasonably private online payments. It's the closest to cash on the internet in terms of privacy. (HN is a very pro-privacy community, judging from Apple vs. Google discussions, so I take it for granted that a desire for privacy doesn't need further justification or elaboration.)

Not really. Your wallet address needs to be shared with others if you want to transfer money, and anyone that knows your wallet knows all of your transactions. If Google decided to build a crypto wallet into Chrome, I think you can agree it would trivial for them to see all of everyone's transactions.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, fantastic. Why should it be legal to exchange bitcoin for US$? Or euros?

That sounds like a burden of proof shift. Why should that be illegal in the first place?

Because it's used to launder money for crime, destroy the environment, and supports the cringiest, most juvenile libertarian derp (thanks Krugman!) about freedom from the tyranny of money banking government taxes or whatever.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#685
post #21

“But it’s like the early Internet!” shouted the Emperor’s coinholders. “The Internet wasn’t yet useful a mere, um, thirteen years after its invention either.” I can see how people in their twenties would fall for this argument because they can’t remember. The reality is that the internet was immediately extremely interesting (either useful or fun) for practically everyone who got access. Email and ftp alone were kill…

I can't agree with your point hard enough. Really useful nascent technologies all have this pattern—they grow incrementally more interesting and constantly gain applications. Bitcoin followed this pattern for a while. But then at some point it started to regress on that axis. You could no longer buy a pizza with it, you could no longer mine it, and it got too flooded by scammers to use safely. There's nothing to real…

Every time I read a comment like that, I feel like there’s a fundamental gap in understanding the field. Bitcoin hasn’t regressed, the tech has just evolved a lot since then but most people just know about bitcoin.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#686
post #21

“But it’s like the early Internet!” shouted the Emperor’s coinholders. “The Internet wasn’t yet useful a mere, um, thirteen years after its invention either.” I can see how people in their twenties would fall for this argument because they can’t remember. The reality is that the internet was immediately extremely interesting (either useful or fun) for practically everyone who got access. Email and ftp alone were kill…

I can't agree with your point hard enough. Really useful nascent technologies all have this pattern—they grow incrementally more interesting and constantly gain applications. Bitcoin followed this pattern for a while. But then at some point it started to regress on that axis. You could no longer buy a pizza with it, you could no longer mine it, and it got too flooded by scammers to use safely. There's nothing to real…

[deleted]

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#687
post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stablecoins like USDC, if everything around it is legit, can be viewed as a programmable dollar... circumventing everything and anything bank-related to do the same work. That's pretty legit IMO.

That’s a big if. People are offering 10+% interest for USDC, but not for USD. This implies massive risk, as those interest rates are much higher than junk bonds.

Two economists are walking down the street and see a $20 bill lying on the sidewalk.

The first economist says, "Look at that $20 bill."

The second says, "That can't really be a $20 bill lying there, because if it were, someone would have picked it up already."

They walk on.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#688

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bitcoin" is a subset of "blockchain." Some blockchains have a lot of stuff to do, even if Bitcoin doesn't.

Which ones?

Avalanche, cosmos/tendermint, ethereum, mina, celo, dfinity, axelar, etc.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#689

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can send unlimited amounts of money, anywhere on earth, for (at most) dollars in a few seconds. I don't need to rely on any government for any reason, and no government can stop me.

The Internet provided solutions to technical problems, regardless of any societal/political considerations. They may have resulted, but as a secondary effect. When theorizing about societal/political benefits, take into account the societal/political problems cryptocurrencies created by inventing a machine that allows converting resources directly into money of miners' digital wallets without regulation. Your sending…

You’re talking about Bitcoin when there’s a multitude of other cryptocurrencies that are not trying to be the digital gold but rather a mean of payment.

Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency

#690
post #279

These two resonated with me: > A lot of intelligent observers look at cryptocurrency, see that it makes no sense, and reasonably infer that they must be missing something profound on the technical level. Tech culture has a nice tradition of not deriding new ideas, but we need to break it here and speak out > [non-tech people] don't see the huge silent majority of tech people who know it's a scam. That's on us It is o…

This huge silent majority that know it is a scam doesn't exist. Crypto is so large, complex and fast-moving that it takes thousands of hours to grasp. If I'd make a list of 100 questions regarding crypto, an exam so to speak, I am reasonably sure that this silent majority can't even answer 5% of the questions. Because they don't know crypto. At all.

It definitely exists. I'm part of it. I understand the technology perfectly well even if I'd fail on your list of 100 gotcha questions about irrelevant details.

I have several friends that worked in the industry professionally, for one of the few exchanges that takes KYC and such seriously.

None of them continue to work in that industry. One of them found it to be a net negative on their resume. None of them hold cryptocurrency.

There are many of us that are in fact informed, and have come to the same conclusion: this is internet tulips, and the music is going to stop some day.

Post reply on HN