Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's become gold. Preferred by criminals, untraceable (gold is a single stable isotope, basically untraceable). A store of wealth. And you can't buy a pizza with gold, either, and there are tons of scammers who love gold (I remember, about Thailand, the scammers would conspire to get people's gold, a few would talk loudly about how jewels were going up, then someone else in your trip would just happen to mention, des…
You’re going to need a bit more evidence on the “criminals love gold” point. Your thailand example just shows people will scam for small, valuable, fungible things. Gold didn’t have a rep as the hub of black market transactions before bitcoin.
It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
591–600 of 1001 posts
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#592The thing is none of that matters. Cryptocurrency is a currency and anyone treating it otherwise and getting burned can't blame the currency for it.
The thing is the *sole criterion* for the viability of a currency is acceptance.
Some examples:
* 90% of USD doesn't physically exist and has no intrinsic value whatsoever. The fact that everyone the world over will accept it in trade defines its viability.
* Stones of Jordan (SOJs) in Diablo II. Terrible, currency because most of the games in the item were worth less. But that didn't matter. They were all anyone would accept. The fact that it was within a game didn't matter. Within the scope of the game they were about all that was accepted.
* chipped gems in Diablo II. They had value in modifying other items and were more granular than SOJs. Some people would even accept a large number for an SOJ.
* (D2jsp) Forum gold (Diablo II). You can buy it with USD (or other currencies I suppose, probably BTC too), and use it to buy items in the game.
* Credit cards - almost every place in the world accepts them, and in theory it's because they're moving a government backed currency... but wait.
* Icelandic Kroner - perfectly viable...but only in Iceland. At least for the most part. Like nobody in the US is going to let you buy gas with 1 ISK.
* Yuan - perfectly viable...but only in Japan. Same as ISK, but japan.
Some negative examples:
* Again, Credit cards - If you were to try to start your own payment processing company that works exactly the same as say, Visa, but nobody has heard of your company it doesn't matter, no one will take it.
* Zimbabwe dollars - hyperinflated to the point of 100 trillion dollar bills. Which people would accept a wheelbarrow of for a roll of toilet paper. Not accepted, so no value.
> It has no social benefit except helping end first dates fast.
* This just isn't true. I've used it to buy weed in a state where it was legal and it worked great. Meaning that you can buy things the government thinks shouldn't be allowed to.
* It allows money laundering. Whether or not you agree with it, it's something it provides.
* Banks and the government can't control you via seizing or freezing it. This one is incredible. The internet has a history of payment processors unilaterally destroying businesses - for example Wikileaks, and many types of porn or sex related services, many of which aren't illegal.
Crypto provides freedom from authoritarianism and that's wonderful.
The overarching axiom is, acceptance is the only thing that matters. Stupid, crazy, nonsensical, non-divisible, non-government backed, all don't matter if people just accept it in trade. And even the best well designed, feature rich, secure, safe, environmentally friendly currency isn't worth a damn thing if no one accepts it. The dumbest, most authoritarian controlled, slow processing, high fee currency with a massive carbon footprint to create more of can still be viable if it has widespread acceptance.
The key is nothing matters except acceptance. And people accept crypto, especially BTC and the other early coins. So they have value.
So no, it's not for us in tech to speak out, because it's not our decision. If people accept crypto, it's a real currency. If people don't, it isn't.
Another way to look at it...what if I told you there was a new scam coin that had 27 trillion in circulation, an unlimited supply, and 1% of people own 30% of it. Oh wait, that's USD.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#593Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gold also has a fatal flaw, there's only so much of it, building a currency based on gold (ie the US dollar on the gold standard) limits the size of the economy, it can't grow if you can't pay for stuff - it's why we left the gold standard. Bitcoin by design only has a fixed number of coins available, eventually the miners will have mined them all. It has the same limitation that gold has and basing an economy on it…
Are you saying economies grow by inflating their currency?
At the moment our economies grow because we can print more money ... and of course most national/reserve banks are careful to not print so much currency that inflation becomes an issue, just enough to cover the economic growth.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#594“But it’s like the early Internet!” shouted the Emperor’s coinholders. “The Internet wasn’t yet useful a mere, um, thirteen years after its invention either.” I can see how people in their twenties would fall for this argument because they can’t remember. The reality is that the internet was immediately extremely interesting (either useful or fun) for practically everyone who got access. Email and ftp alone were kill…
I can't agree with your point hard enough. Really useful nascent technologies all have this pattern—they grow incrementally more interesting and constantly gain applications. Bitcoin followed this pattern for a while. But then at some point it started to regress on that axis. You could no longer buy a pizza with it, you could no longer mine it, and it got too flooded by scammers to use safely. There's nothing to real…
I have bought a lot of pizzas with BTC (and other cryptocurrencies), as the local food ordering platform accepts it. Worked grear, but at some point the crypto payment processor started requiring KYC. I'm not gonna upload my passport to pay for pizza. I dont know if this problem is because of crypto or excessive regulation.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#595I could waste a huge amount of time refuting the author's points, but will make it more of a meta comment. Crypto is vast, complex, and inherently not suitable for binary thinking. I've studied the space for months and have come to the conclusion that crypto is two-sided in almost every aspect. Many/most coins are speculative, which you can associate with words like "greed" and "casino". Yet also provide wealth savin…
It's always so convenient that cryptocurrency/smart contract proponents "can't be bothered" to give actual arguments. Your comment here is a poster child of "I don't have time to explain, so please take these baseless assertions that you are wrong. Sorry I have to go now, for unrelated reasons". It's a cliche at this point.
Your strategy is to say "you're wrong, prove me right". No, I won't be writing book-length comments here to convince some internet stranger whom is categorically against it.
I have no burden of proof. I'm not even a proponent or opponent. All I said is that it's complicated and two-sided, to keep an open mind.
I'm not here to explain you crypto.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#596Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I believe Bitcoin is the single biggest innovation driver in the tech sector right now Not gonna lie, I laughed at this.
Yes sorry it was a typo. I meant to write: > I believe Bitcoin is the single biggest innovation driver in the *fin*tech sector right now. Obviously not the biggest driver in tech; i don't blame you fr laughing at this statement.
I think I’d be inclined to point towards “neo-banks” as being more innovative in that specific sector, but that’s within “reasonable to disagree” range.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#597Earlier quoted context omitted.
What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? (I assume throughput but I'll wait for your reply). What do you mean by saying people fell for "this"? I assume you mean it's a scam but I will wait for your reply.
> What are the fundamental flaws you're talking about? For a payments system, the fact that all transactions are final is pretty bad. I'd say this, by itself, makes the system unusable in the real world.
And BTW no we dont need bitcoin for this at all its depreciated tech. But other DLT can be very usefully. There is a reason CBDCs are a huge topic in global finance.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#598Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#599Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was no reason to believe it would move laterally, for both technical and social reasons. First, the underpinnings of Bitcoin are ideological, namely in Austrian economics. This means that any change that caused any inflation would be socially resisted. Second, most of the issues with Bitcoin stem from the lack of a central authority to do things like chargebacks and handle conflict resolution. It is not possibl…
Yeah, but when you took away the money part and just looked at the technical idea of a distributed chained ledger with no central point of trust, that was cool. At least, it was cool to me. It seemed like it might go in some interesting other direction.
Re: It's time for us in the tech world to speak out about cryptocurrency
#600In terms of cryptocurrency, from my perspective the problem for mass adoption comes down to stability of value and oversight. Why would anyone want their paycheque to come to them in crypto when a few tweets by Elon Musk, lord of crypto market manipulation can turn your 2k paycheque into a 1.1k paycheque?
On top of that, for good or for ill the big banks and credit card companies have decades of built up trust in that there is a centralised authority who can ensure that your money is safe. Irregardless of what the reality of crypto and the safety of your money in crypto, the wider public will not trust that their money is safe when there is no one to be held accountable if something happens.
Finally, the fact that crypto has, to the wider public at least, been shown to have significant benefits for criminal activity and speculators actively trying to manipulate the markets has painted the entire crypto space as something that the average person should generally avoid at all costs.
In theory, I liked the original idea of crypto. But the truth is that crypto was good-intentioned idealism corrupted by selfishness and greed.