Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

petapixel.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

611–620 of 647 posts

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#611

Post by OkGoDoIt »

caseysoftware wrote: post #556
sbarre wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have also said, doing a chargeback risks Amazon closing your account permanently. So if you're prepared to take that risk and never buy from Amazon again, sure.. go for it.. But given the centralization of vendors this can have bigger downsides than upside.

Intriguing and horrifying.. What happens with a ban? I assume all my not-downloaded Kindle books become unavailable. Does the Kindle app delete the ones I have locally? (I assume the result would be similar for movies/shows purchased.) Does it ban my credit card, name, address, or a more abstract "buying profile"?

Hope you don’t have any digital media streaming held with Amazon, or AWS, or Alexa, Kindle tablet, etc. So many horror stories get posted on hackernews regularly about what happens when one of these huge centralized companies decides to ban a customer with no recourse, no matter whose fault it is

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#612

Post by DSingularity »

wpietri wrote: post #610
DSingularity wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t like my dependence on Amazon but they have definitely improved my quality of life. I get everything I need other than groceries online. This has saved me a lot of time over the years.

That sounds nice. How does this relate to you repeatedly doubting what I said?

So, you been ordering books for decades from Amazon. Has your book ordering experience gone down?

* I guess I’m just trying to understand what exactly has declined over two decades? Because I feel like I’ve had the opposite experience.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#613

Post by paleotrope »

wyager wrote: post #396
simonsarris wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. After getting clearly-open-box (used? counterfeit? returned?) Makita batteries on Amazon I only buy tools from Home Depot, only buy camera equipment from B&H, etc. No more pricey tools or electronics from Amazon, or food for that matter (years ago, bought box of protein bars, came expired!)

I bought an $800 winch from Amazon, shipped and sold by Amazon, in “new” condition. When it arrived, not only was it clearly used, but it had been damaged by improper use and would have been extremely dangerous if I tried to use it. If I hadn’t known what to look for, I probably would have used it and been at risk of serious injury. Amazon is clearly marking returns as “new” if their clueless returns staff thinks the…

That's not just Amazon though. I bought a band saw from Lowes that once I opened the box had clearly been used and dropped, so much that the base was bent.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#614

Post by pnutjam »

tlogan wrote: post #429
an_opabinia wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, if I'm 30, they'll estimate ~50 years of revenue going forward from me and use this as LTV? No. If you're 30, they might (or might not) group you with other 30 year olds, if that's important, and run this model against you all as a group. But you don't punch in "he has 50 years left to live" in the model. The model doesn't know any of that, it just knows your transaction history, and it works better when the po…

Don’t forget there is also this: https://www.theretailequation.com/ Basically, these models can pretty much predict whether you are pathological or good one. I know that models also include things like if you are a pet owner, number of pets, siblings, number of disputes in cc, etc.

No, people believe the model is effective. There is no scientific method, it's what middle managers are comfortable with and could easily be garbage.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#615

Post by amatecha »

texaswhizzle wrote: post #261
amatecha wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For returns you have to print a barcode and put it in the box. You don't get your refund until they physically scan the code in the box. Maybe it's not standard everywhere, but this process has been around for some years now. If the package never gets to the return center, no refund would be processed…

I’ve never been asked to print a barcode and put it in the box. I just returned a $300 item last week, and all they wanted me to do was ship it back. This is also true for Amazon business purchases. I have returned items around $600 and have never been asked to put a code in the box. But I’ve never returned anything over $1,000.

That's interesting, maybe it's different per country or perhaps even city/region? The two times I've ever returned something, I had to put a little printed barcode thing into the box with the returned item. Just did this a couple months ago.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#616

Post by asimpletune »

chongli wrote: post #473
asimpletune wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me about how these infractions can be enforced without suing though?

The point is that it shouldn’t be the aggrieved consumer filing the lawsuit, it should be the powerful regulator with potential fines tied to a percentage of company revenue.

I wasn’t trying to suggest otherwise at all. I literally just don’t understand how consumer protection laws are supposed to work, and was wondering if the parent knew of some way to enforce what’s right without having to take them to court.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#617

Post by mlyle »

vl wrote: post #606
mlyle wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Via media intervention? Eh. That concerns me and makes me worry that 99% of the time this happens it silently goes away from a customer who is not able to get media attention. IMO this should be a flag for regulators to start taking a look, too, to understand how systemic this is.

Out of all things such as app store monopoly abuses and taxes, right to repair abuses in both devices and cars, search/ads monopoly power abuses, consumer protection is already reasonably and well regulated and not the first thing that needs additional regulation.

There's already decent regulation, yes. It may be time for the regulators to actually look at Amazon using those extant regulations, if they are declining returns in clear-cut cases like this.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#618

Post by fomine3 »

marban wrote: post #44

I've placed approx. 15k orders with Amazon Germany in 20 years and have probably had less than 100 issues, mostly with FBA sellers. I get an answer from CS within 10 minutes and 1-day shipments are on time ~98%. Refunds are issued as soon as I drop the package in the return box. Call me a fan. The best experience is still Amazon JP but returns are a little more complicated (Even within Japan) — Obviously b/c you more…

I've done hundreds of orders on Amazon JP. I rarely return products but there are two cases:

Panasonic's microwave is dead on arrival, then Amazon shipped replacement one soon before I sent broken one.

Sony's headphone's bone is broken after a few month, so I sent it to Sony's service center but the shit support said that it's broken due to me, not product's fault even though it never taken out. They tried to charged me repair cost before repairing, so I tried to return the product to Amazon JP because it's faulty product. They accepted refunding with exactly same argument wrote here. I believe it won't happen on other Japanese shops.

From this experience, I sometimes buy from Amazon for products that possibly fragile and manufacturer's support is not reliable. (Or add extended warranty that covers my fault)

My friend often buy Chinese cheap electronics from Amazon JP (a.k.a. AliExpress Japan branch) and often return crap. He said it work flawlessly.

I've never lost my package, thanks to high quality delivery company and secure place.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#619

Post by rkk3 »

wyattpeak wrote: post #296
rkk3 wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a fan of Amazon. They sold (Amazon Choice, so they bought and then resold) me a chair that had a staple sticking out of one of the feet, that caused significant damage to my hardwood floors. Fuck them. At the same time, I think it is naive to expect a customer support rep in the Philippines to handle this sort of situation. They do not make 7K in a month. If they bought the empty box at a brick and motor sto…

Fair enough, I'm sorry to have implied otherwise. I agree with you about the frontline rep, that's not the person I have a problem with. I don't expect a low-level customer support rep to be able to approve such a thing. I expect Amazon to, in the event that a rep can't handle a complaint, proactively solve it in a different way, not try to fob the claimant off. It would be just as easy to, say, bump any refund claim…

> people self-censoring to avoid getting on the wrong side of the algorithm Not sure what you mean by this.

> This is a situation Amazon has engineered

I agree but I disagree with you as to why. I see two distinct issues.

1. Amazon marketplace reliability/integrity.

2. Customer support escalation process.

_________________________

1. I think Amazon does an abhorrent job, it's the wild west with regards to quality, fraud. & counterfeits. I personally don't trust it.

2. Unfortunately almost everywhere cuts costs and uses automation & frontline works but I think Amazon has a significantly above average process for a large company. The jeff@amazon.com is a very publicized escalation option/safety valve, which worked in this case & I am not aware of for other large brands. It's unfortunate they had a bad call the first time, but that happens. If this sort of thing happened with another retailer (although it's less likely to), I doubt they would have handled it until they went to twitter or was generating press with the story.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#620

Post by CRConrad »

herpderperator wrote: post #150
gambiting wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, if you buy an item on Amazon.com then it's on Amazon.com to make sure you have a good experience. As a customer I literally don't care who is fulfilling the purchase, I'm making the purchase on Amazon.com and my money is clearly going to Amazon.com according to my bank statements. If they decide to work with unscrupulous 3rd parties then that's on them, not on me.

There's obviously a misunderstanding with my statement. I am not talking about what should or shouldn't be happening, or what is morally right, or what the ideal experience is. I'm warning people that unfortunately Amazon does not operate the way many people think. Of course I do agree that Amazon should be the sole seller and that if you buy something from Amazon you should expect to receive it from Amazon. I am sim…

I've always thought "it's on > to..." means "it's X's moral responsibility", not "what X is currently doing".
Post reply on HN