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Humans used to sleep in two shifts

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Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#51

Post by tzs »

Marazan wrote: post #38

To say I am sceptical of the idea that we used to regularly wake up in the pitch black of night and do stuff is an under statement.

What part are you skeptical of...the waking up and doing stuff in the pitch black of the night, or the splitting sleep into two segments?

The waking up and doing stuff in the black of night doesn't seem too farfetched, considering that in much of the world a large fraction of people do that nowadays. For a good fraction of the year in much of the world the duration of night is longer than the duration of sleep, so you've really don't have much choice about waking up and doing stuff in the blackness of night unless you just want to lie awake in bed waiting for dawn (or you went to bed late enough to sleep until it is getting light--but then you were awake in the blackness before going to sleep).

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#52

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

lurquer wrote: post #35
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I read your list. It’s very comprehensive. Incorrect. It is a small subset. > I’d wager an average person from any previous century would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Indeed, I bet an average resident of many third-world countries would do the same. Sure. Many would. Others would be overwhelmed by the complexity of not just required hours in the day (which tend to increase for the very poor) but also by th…

Sorry to hear about your wife. And your lack of food. Similar items were in your list. I ignored them. Because those issues are universal at all times and at all places. Dealing with a mentally ill wife in the 1300s was, I would bet, a bit more ‘complex’ and draining that dealing with a mentally ill wife in a modern city with emergency psych wards, effective drugs (available for convenient pick-up at pharmacies on ne…

> Similar items were in your list. I ignored them.

I've noticed a trend here to fixate on individual items on the list. This obfuscates it's point - which is that the modern life = simple bliss analysis omits the vast bulk of everything that is required of us.

Over the course of a year, about how many laws, regulations and requirements do you figure you'll be forced to consider?

Few will only need to be handled once. And all that together is a minor requirement of all that's expected of us.

Honestly tho. Resisting the notion that our lives are immensely complex compared to any point in history is an odd thing to do.

I won't go as far as to tag it complexity-denialism. Not even in a passive-aggressive way.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#53

Post by bpodgursky »

bserge wrote: post #24
bpodgursky wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a wildly romantic and patronizing view of our ancestors. Our ancestors had FAR harder lives with more complex responsibilities than anything you have today. It's just so ludicrous to sit on your couch, eating takeout food, paid for either by social welfare or white-collar work (also done from your couch) and spitball "oh, our lives are just so complicated and hard now". No, your life is stupidly easy now. Tha…

Modern life is far more mentally taxing and stressful, so we want to go back to the "good old days". Pre-industrial (and pre-agricultural) life was more physically taxing and stressful, so they wanted to move on to something better and easier. At least today you can just save up, move to the middle of nowhere and live exactly like they did 500+ years ago, but with much better safety. You can even add some modern tool…

> Modern life is far more mentally taxing and stressful

No, I'm not conceding this point. It ignores that our ancestors evolved large brains (note, before agriculture, _they were even larger_) to deal with a wildly complex natural environment. Knowing the details of the dozens of food sources necessary to survive. How to deal with different seasons. Which of hundreds of animals were edible, which would eat you, and which were fine to ignore.

Life was, in every single way, harder and more complex before technology. Trying to equate our comfortable and materially opulent existence with theirs is wrong.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#54

Post by codingdave »

yoz-y wrote: post #23
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less than 5% of the people I've known didn't have significant driving associated with their work. This is over decades, across different metro areas.

This really depends on location. For me for example that number would be inverted.

Me, too. In my 30 years of works across numerous metro areas, I've been able to commute by train, bus, bike, or walk for 25 out of 30 of those years. Most people I worked with likewise could do it without a car. Some people chose to drive, but it was not at all a requirement.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#55

Post by karmakaze »

> In the early 1990s, psychiatrist Thomas Wehr conducted a laboratory experiment in which he exposed a group of people to a short photoperiod – that is, they were left in darkness for 14 hours every day instead of the typical 8 hours – for a month.

> It took some time for their sleep to regulate, but by the fourth week, a distinct two-phase sleep pattern emerged. They slept first for 4 hours, then woke for 1 to 3 hours before falling into a second 4-hour sleep. This finding suggests bi-phasic sleep is a natural process with a biological basis.

Yes, a natural process for being in darkness 14 hours a day. I personally prefer to use electric light and be out of the dark ages.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#56

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

markrages wrote: post #6

Controversy: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2015/10/the-many...

Specifically:

The volunteers also slept continuously. They would toss and turn like everyone does, but they almost never woke up for a concerted window in the middle of the night. This contradicts a growing idea, popularized by historian Roger Ekirch, that sleeping in eight-hour chunks is a modern affectation.

Ekirch combed through centuries of Western literature and documents to show that Europeans used to sleep in two segments, separated by an hour or two of wakefulness. Siegel doesn’t dispute Ekirch’s analysis; he just thinks that the old two-block pattern was preceded by an even older single-block one. “The two-sleep pattern was probably due to humans migrating so far from the equator that they had long dark periods,” he says. “The long nights caused this pathological sleep pattern and the advent of electric lights and heating restored the primal one.”

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#60

Post by dplgk »

karmakaze wrote: post #55

> In the early 1990s, psychiatrist Thomas Wehr conducted a laboratory experiment in which he exposed a group of people to a short photoperiod – that is, they were left in darkness for 14 hours every day instead of the typical 8 hours – for a month. > It took some time for their sleep to regulate, but by the fourth week, a distinct two-phase sleep pattern emerged. They slept first for 4 hours, then woke for 1 to 3 hou…

If they need to go back to sleep after being up for only 1-3 hours then perhaps they should have slept longer? i.e. One shift
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