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Humans used to sleep in two shifts

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Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#31

Post by a9h74j »

bpodgursky wrote: post #4
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #2

I think about historical, 2-phase sleep a lot. One reason it will be difficult to restore natural sleep cycles is that life has become increasingly complex; we have exponentially more responsibilities than our ancestors had. In short, we are unlikely have a couple more hours to add to our sleep periods.

This is a wildly romantic and patronizing view of our ancestors. Our ancestors had FAR harder lives with more complex responsibilities than anything you have today. It's just so ludicrous to sit on your couch, eating takeout food, paid for either by social welfare or white-collar work (also done from your couch) and spitball "oh, our lives are just so complicated and hard now". No, your life is stupidly easy now. Tha…

To paraphrase what the Saudis are said to say about oil wealth: things are easy enough now to insure that the grandchildren will experience problems that used to be.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#33

Post by manmal »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #28
lurquer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your list. It’s very comprehensive. I’d wager an average person from any previous century would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Indeed, I bet an average resident of many third-world countries would do the same. In fact, I bet the average resident of the average trailer park ten miles from where you live would trade places with you.

> I read your list. It’s very comprehensive. Incorrect. It is a small subset. > I’d wager an average person from any previous century would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Indeed, I bet an average resident of many third-world countries would do the same. Sure. Many would. Others would be overwhelmed by the complexity of not just required hours in the day (which tend to increase for the very poor) but also by th…

I hope I don’t offend you by suggesting this, and I’m ready to face a hard rejection - but you could probably benefit from saying No to obligations/responsibilities more often, and caring a little bit less about always doing the right thing. Murphy’s law means people fill their life with complexity until there’s no room left.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#34

Post by enraged_camel »

sneak wrote: post #12
garmaine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A single quote? There are whole medieval books about what to do “between the sleeps.”

I'm curious about them; what are some titles?

I don't know about books but this isn't the first time people have written about this. Doing a quick search on "between the sleeps" yields articles from early 2000s and 2010s.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#35

Post by lurquer »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #28
lurquer wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read your list. It’s very comprehensive. I’d wager an average person from any previous century would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Indeed, I bet an average resident of many third-world countries would do the same. In fact, I bet the average resident of the average trailer park ten miles from where you live would trade places with you.

> I read your list. It’s very comprehensive. Incorrect. It is a small subset. > I’d wager an average person from any previous century would trade places with you in a heartbeat. Indeed, I bet an average resident of many third-world countries would do the same. Sure. Many would. Others would be overwhelmed by the complexity of not just required hours in the day (which tend to increase for the very poor) but also by th…

Sorry to hear about your wife. And your lack of food.

Similar items were in your list. I ignored them.

Because those issues are universal at all times and at all places.

Dealing with a mentally ill wife in the 1300s was, I would bet, a bit more ‘complex’ and draining that dealing with a mentally ill wife in a modern city with emergency psych wards, effective drugs (available for convenient pick-up at pharmacies on nearly every corner), and entire industry of psychiatrists, psychologists, counselors, etc.

I mean, if we are comparing apples to apples, I’d much rather have a mental illness issue in a family member today versus 100 years ago. I’d rather not have the issue present at all, but that’s not a comparison. I mean, you could just as well say, “Trade places with me?! I’m a balding quadriplegic typing this with my nose! I challenge you to find any 13th century peasant who would be willing to trade places with me!”

Edit: I’d chime in with the other response. Namely, you sound very stressed out. I wish your situation wasn’t so complex. Seriously. Hang in there.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#36

Post by Jiocus »

Okkef wrote: post #5

There is rather scant evidence of two-shift sleep presented here; a single quote from some unknown writer and a single experiment with broadly interpreted results. I'm not convinced.

The article isn't a scientific enquiry, but it reports on the theme of the book At Day's Close: Night in Times Past (98 citations on Google Scholar)[1]. This book apparently packs a great amount of endnotes and sources.

[1]: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?cites=8924290322670217203...

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#37

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

evo_9 wrote: post #32
cperciva wrote: post #13

As the parent of a 2 month old: I wish my sleep were a mere two shifts!

It gets better fast - at month 5 with new son and he’s sleeping 6.5 or so a night. Congrats either way - fun times ahead!

It depends on the child. My first slept about 4 hours a night until he was about 2 or so. Getting him to sleep could be a multi-hour ordeal.

My second dropped off the second he was set down. We could pick him up and he'd wake up and be happy to be passed around - then he'd drop right off when we set him down again. The rest of my sons were more typical.

Personally I never slept well until they were post SIDS age.

Re: Humans used to sleep in two shifts

#39

Post by Jiocus »

sneak wrote: post #12
garmaine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A single quote? There are whole medieval books about what to do “between the sleeps.”

I'm curious about them; what are some titles?

You could buy the book that sourced those original titles to find out. Authors should be compensated for their work.
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