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Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

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Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#91

Post by thehappypm »

TylerLives wrote: post #83
bostonsre wrote: post #80

I normally go with a range, not a specific number. I would be happy if I made between x and y. This allows you to set the actual minimum and give a higher max than you expect. Normally, they will pick a number in between.

I'm confused. Why wouldn't they pay you the minimum you requested. Why would you put an upper limit to your salary? Is this some strange game people play?

It’s kind of the opposite of a game, it’s very transparent. In reality you would accept a minimum of $X and reasonably think there’s a max of $Y. Companies don’t treat employees as purely cost, they want to give them good packages for retention and morale so they don’t just offer the lowest salaries imaginable.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#92

Post by akvadrako »

SMAAART wrote: post #63

Premise: I am a decent negotiator, I have negotiated my fair share of deals, from salaries, to buying stuff around the world markers, to VC rounds. I believe that negotiations is about leverage and not bluffing, about fairness and about negotiating/exchanging informations. Having said that, if you asked $40 and they are thinking in the $30 range, if I were in the company's shoes I would not extend an offer, since: 1.…

The difference between $30 and $40 is not much. I think a 100% difference is hard to reconcile (unless the parties really want it) but it's almost always more important to get the right person than pay 25% less.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#93

Post by kqr »

BeetleB wrote: post #81
kaydub wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" is similar to the "How am I supposed to do this?" kind of open ended question the author uses as an example. Happy you posted this, feel like an idiot that I've never thought of using that exact phrase lol.

> Your question resonates a bit with the "Never Split the Difference" method of asking an open ended question immediately after receiving an offer. "Can you explain how you came to this number?" While the general advice of open ended questions is sound, this question rarely works with companies. They'll simply respond with a vague answer. "We did market research and determined that this is a competitive rate for your…

Sure, the follow-up to "how did you get to this number?" is -- whether or not they actually reply in detail -- always "See, I did it this way, and I ended up with this other number. What do you think causes the difference?"

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#94

Post by leetrout »

BeetleB wrote: post #79
llaolleh wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never Split the Difference is a great book.

Terrible book that has some gems. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21769264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19059590 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25309966

Gems?

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#95

Post by kqr »

simonh wrote: post #75
Buttons840 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another question might be something like: I know you need to pay me less than the value I create, because this needs to be a mutually profitable arrangement. How much value do you expect I can bring to the company? Or maybe the more open ended question is better? I do like Never Split the Difference, great book. The most common complaint against it is that the author is a bit arrogant, but having read a couple other…

>...I know you need to pay me less than the value I create... How much value do you expect I can bring to the company? I would never use this sort of phrasing, that sound really painful. Have you ever actually used that in a negotiation? Rather I'd highlight my experience in achieving results at reduced cost, identifying efficiencies, and developing new sources of revenue to highlight my own ability to bring extra va…

I'm not the person you're asking, but I tried a question very similar to that once. It -- the question -- did not have the intended effect. The negotiation itself left all parties happy though, so what do I know?

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#96

Post by kanzenryu2 »

codingdave wrote: post #82
misiti3780 wrote: post #25

When negotiating salary, always throw the first figure, and make it higher than you expect. It's called anchoring (read about it in Thinking Fast and Slow). It is a lot easier to come down to 120->100/hr then it is to come up from 50->100/hr. This can be applied to selling/buying a home and a lot of other things.

That is exactly why you never throw the first figure. If you throw out 120, and they expected to pay 200, you just lost out big time.

If you're living in a world where people are prepared to pay much more for your work than you first thought, eventually you're going to end up pretty happy

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#97

Post by wiz21c »

kqr wrote: post #78
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea! The best way to negotiate is to have leverage. You can fake leverage, of course, but that's where the risk of losing the deal materializes. So rather than fake leverage, create it. Get other job offers.

That said, keep in mind that in a negotiation, you always have leverage. Some of the best negotiation advice I ever got was "the very fact that they're still talking to you means you have something they want." That sentence helps both with confidence and understanding the dynamics at play. (The trick to negotiating well, then, is being good at finding an agreement that leaves you both happy while still talking to eac…

a bit off topic but long ago I was impressed by someone much smarter than. So impressed that I was a bit scared. Then someone told me : "if the guy is still talking to you then it means he thinks you're an interesting person".

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#98

Post by Mary-Jane »

schoolornot wrote: post #77
westoque wrote: post #65

Disclaimer, I'm a CTO. Here's how I evaluate this if I was evaluating you: 1. I already have a salary budget already allocated for this role based on industry average for position and location (but location _could_ be irrelevant depending on skill mostly). 2. I look at your skillset and put you at the bucket for the position where you are at: low-med-high 3. I make my offer based on my evaluation. 4. If you are "wort…

You’re a CTO so I imagine you’re hiring mostly directors and VPs and it comes down to whether you like the candidate or not. At a lot of companies you just have to be noticeably better than everyone else because after 5+ employees interviewing 5+ candidates, most managers have had enough with the time the team has sunk into that process. As a candidate, if you can find out how long the role has been open, you can rea…

FYI, CTOs at startups often directly interview and hire technical candidates...

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#99

Post by Buttons840 »

kqr wrote: post #95
simonh wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...I know you need to pay me less than the value I create... How much value do you expect I can bring to the company? I would never use this sort of phrasing, that sound really painful. Have you ever actually used that in a negotiation? Rather I'd highlight my experience in achieving results at reduced cost, identifying efficiencies, and developing new sources of revenue to highlight my own ability to bring extra va…

I'm not the person you're asking, but I tried a question very similar to that once. It -- the question -- did not have the intended effect. The negotiation itself left all parties happy though, so what do I know?

It seems most think it would be awkward, so it probably would be.

I'd like to hear more about how it went for you. It seems like one of the ultra logical views which people find weird (or offensive) when spoken out loud. I mean, the principle here is clearly true, both the employee and employer must profit, if this condition doesn't exist the company soon dies.

Re: Ask HN: Negotiating Salary

#100

Post by akomtu »

kqr wrote: post #78
Ozzie_osman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea! The best way to negotiate is to have leverage. You can fake leverage, of course, but that's where the risk of losing the deal materializes. So rather than fake leverage, create it. Get other job offers.

That said, keep in mind that in a negotiation, you always have leverage. Some of the best negotiation advice I ever got was "the very fact that they're still talking to you means you have something they want." That sentence helps both with confidence and understanding the dynamics at play. (The trick to negotiating well, then, is being good at finding an agreement that leaves you both happy while still talking to eac…

Unless the hiring managers is looking for a cheap pushover who would work overtime and be on call 24/7 at no additional cost.
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