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Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

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Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#431

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

ericmay wrote: post #340
JCharante wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one problem I face with centralization. If all stores handle purchases on their own, it's fine if your local camera shop refuses you as a customer because you also probably don't want to deal with them again, but if you are forced to use your CC company to dispute against steam, amazon, google, you are risking being banned from their service. You are risking access to your photos, documents, and emails. To us…

I agree, but we are far from centralized. Very far. -edit- If you think we're centralized and you're "downvoting to disagree" at least have some decency to explain how we're centralized. There is nothing that Amazon sells that I can't buy an alternative product at a dozen other retailers for comparable prices, for example.

Downvoting on HN sucks, doesn't it? It's a feature designed without empathy, even though it directly affects human emotion. Which is extra bizarre considering it's on a forum that prides itself on respectful human behavior.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#432

Post by subhro »

I actively try to get things outside Amazon as well but most of the time end up buying from Amazon anyway. And people have rightfully said quite a few times, stuff is listed cheaper than on Amazon. However for most independent stores, manufacturers I notice that either they charge for shipping, or has a 50$ minimum to get free shipping. I have tried to bounce off cash back portals to cover for some of the shipping, but most of the time it is not enough.

In addition, I have a Amazon card from Chase that offers 5% of cashback on amount spent at Amazon. Most of the time factoring in shipping and cashback seals the deal for Amazon and covers for the price difference.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#433

Post by FpUser »

formerly_proven wrote: post #291
lotsofpulp wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume the “their” and “them” in this comment refer to third party sellers, which could be anyone. I would rather order from the brand directly, or Home Depot or Best Buy or any other established business that does not try to pawn me off as a customer to someone else.

Especially for audio/video/photo stuff there's a bunch of dealers just for that, which tend to be quite good (in terms of prices, packaging, customer services), and also specialized distributors ("sells small numbers to professionals"), that's why I'm surprised people go for Amazon. Some examples: Random camera: Amazon: 2000 €, any photo dealer: 1800 € Random high-end lens: Amazon: 2500 €, photo dealer: 2000 € Random…

Different here in Canada. For example particular lens I am looking for is $1,900 on Amazon and $2,200 from other retailers.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#434

Post by sundvor »

an_opabinia wrote: post #378
ageitgey wrote: post #215

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like: Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue from your transactions so far Revenue = The sum of your past transactions Refund? = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0 This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't g…

Interesting. I've bought most of my tech stuff from the same company for 20 years now. Their system actually lets me see all completed orders, and it tallied to about 50k AUD last time I checked (as an individual).

They're not always the cheapest, but the overall experience is great - and I just love that I can see all my orders for such a long time span.

Now, I've always had good customer support experiences with the company, and your model helps explain why I suppose; loyalty has a value of its own.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#436

Post by franga2000 »

bradleyjg wrote: post #426
franga2000 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like how else could it work? They investigate everything, spending more money than the cost of the refund? Is anyone actually arguing for fewer "easy refunds" and more investigation? I though the point was that given the fact that most of their refunds are handled algorithmically, they have plenty of time to handle the rest of the refunds quickly and with care. If I don't get my order, I want my money back. If the…

At the end of the day your remedy is to sue someone. Everything else is a courtesy shortcut.

I don't know about you, but where I'm from, consumer protection laws exist specifically so consumers don't have to sue in these cases. Providing a fair refund process is their legal duty, not a courtesy.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#438

Post by josephcsible »

rkalla wrote: post #315
nigerian1981 wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found my credit card company, American Express to be great for getting refunds in cases like this and always use my credit card for larger purchases.

Like others have said - be careful with this option - there are a LOT Of examples in the Google Fi forums about people doing a chargeback with Google because of charges they felt were fair or fraudulent via Google Fi, and next thing they know their Google Account (Photos, Docs, Email, etc.) is disabled. I would watch the same thing with Amazon (Music, Alexa, Photos, AWS, etc.)

One thing I've always wondered: since credit cards generally have relatively pro-consumer policies, why didn't they just take the next logical step and write "retaliation for chargebacks isn't allowed" into their merchant agreements?

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#439

Post by ineedasername »

an_opabinia wrote: post #378
ageitgey wrote: post #215

Like most people, I've ordered a lot of packages (hundreds?) on Amazon and almost never had a problem. In the rare case of a problem, Amazon would instantly refund me. But almost all those orders are under $1000. Everything changes when you have a problem with an expensive order. Amazon has a price threshold where the support system is different and the normal CS people are powerless. During lockdown, I ordered a Son…

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like: Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue from your transactions so far Revenue = The sum of your past transactions Refund? = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0 This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't g…

Because my LTV was really high.

Yep, I think this is exactly how things work. My household buys pretty much anything it can from Amazon unless it's more expensive than we can get elsewhere because our Amazon credit cards automatically give a 5% discount (cash back). Since we pay our balance every month this is basically like having 5% more income proportional to the amount spent on Amazon**

We never have a problem dealing with customer service. A simple chat solves pretty much everything immediately, and when it's Amazon's fault they'll apply a courtesy credit towards our account. (Actually that hasn't happened a lot lately-- maybe something they don't do as much any more, or maybe they've calculated that we're solid enough customers that we're not quiting Amazon just because Amazon didn't give us free money)

*The first time we used Amazon Fresh was a complete epiphany for us. I was sick so couldn't go food shopping. Instead I gave Fresh a shot, and found out that on average their prices were 10% to 15% lower than I paid at the supermarket, and* we still got the same 5% cash back from using our Amazon credit card. Even after a good tip for the driver, we were still saving money. In terms of selection, they probably lack about 10% of the things we normally buy or they're much more expensive (meats especially) so I still do the occasional trip to the local grocery store to stock up.

Re: Amazon refused to refund $7k after shipping an empty box instead of a Sony A1

#440

Post by cortesoft »

franga2000 wrote: post #407
an_opabinia wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid of being downvoted, but the algorithm for an Amazon return looks something like: Your LTV = Forecasting total revenue from your transactions so far Revenue = The sum of your past transactions Refund? = LTV - Revenue - Refund Cost > 0 This is a much simpler, much more logical model. It appears everywhere, like with credit card disputes or when you get service discounts to not leave. Because when you don't g…

> Like how else could it work? They investigate everything, spending more money than the cost of the refund? Is anyone actually arguing for fewer "easy refunds" and more investigation? I though the point was that given the fact that most of their refunds are handled algorithmically, they have plenty of time to handle the rest of the refunds quickly and with care. If I don't get my order, I want my money back. If the…

This assumes that by investigating you will determine the truth. Often times, even if they spent a ton of time investigating, they aren’t going to be able to determine who was at fault.
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