Earlier quoted context omitted.
ECC is vulnerable to Rowhammer.
The same way that masks don't prevent COVID.
Right in statistically mostly it does / they do.
Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
31–40 of 127 posts
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#32Article title is slightly misleading: by smaller they mean process size, increasing the range of the rowhammer attacks logically due to decreased distance between memory cells even though the physics limited distance is the same.
I'm the author of the article. With all due respect, but I will have to push back on your categorization as 'slightly misleading' here. Your explanation effectively explains the headline and is also what Google researchers said. How is the headline misleading?
Slightly confusing is better verbiage. I had to think for a sec (I have had cache memory on the mind, which is "smaller" than main memory).
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#33Article title is slightly misleading: by smaller they mean process size, increasing the range of the rowhammer attacks logically due to decreased distance between memory cells even though the physics limited distance is the same.
I'm the author of the article. With all due respect, but I will have to push back on your categorization as 'slightly misleading' here. Your explanation effectively explains the headline and is also what Google researchers said. How is the headline misleading?
I also read it that way and the paper does not use that phrase. I'm not saying intentionally misleading, but clearly some people were mislead.
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
DRAM manufacturers continue (knowingly at this point) to manufacture faulty products, and we should blame Intel?
Yes. Intel is an industry leader. EFI, Thunderbolt, and the "ultrabook" product category are all their ideas. By adding a feature to their CPU products, they induce demand for anything that complements it. By putting ECC support into their highest-end mobile CPUs only, they made them into high-end luxuries instead of industry standard. https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/search/featurefi...
The Ultrabook brand was Intel's idea but I'm pretty sure it was created to make sure that the Wintel ecosystem could stay competitive with the MacBook Air.
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#35Is there any evidence of Rawhammer being used in a successful attack in the wild?
Is there any evidence it's not just a matter of time before there is?
Rowhammer, Spectre, etc. are all very high-information attacks which strike me as not worth the effort for run of the mill adversaries. Three-letter agencies, however, I suspect might have played around with them - if a cloud vendor is secure, and they need a way to un-secure it, they have the resources to get microarchitectural researchers sworn to secrecy to make these attacks work.
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to the article, no. What I want to know is if this works on ECC memory. I'm guessing not, which makes the "vulnerability" even more of a non-issue in mission-critical applications that likely moved to ECC a while ago.
Yes, Rowhammer can bypass ECC. Forgot to include this in the article, mainly because there's so much Rowhammer research. See here: https://www.vusec.net/projects/eccploit/
Can Rowhammer bypass ECC and not be detected by an hw_event_mc_err_type? I don't think so. Why would someone have ECC without a sufficiently sophisticated driver?
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#37Article title is slightly misleading: by smaller they mean process size, increasing the range of the rowhammer attacks logically due to decreased distance between memory cells even though the physics limited distance is the same.
"Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser "?
Ok, let's try that above. Thanks!
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#38Article title is slightly misleading: by smaller they mean process size, increasing the range of the rowhammer attacks logically due to decreased distance between memory cells even though the physics limited distance is the same.
I'm the author of the article. With all due respect, but I will have to push back on your categorization as 'slightly misleading' here. Your explanation effectively explains the headline and is also what Google researchers said. How is the headline misleading?
Misleading may have been the wrong word, though I will say I qualified it with slightly.
The changed title is much more informative.
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to the article, no. What I want to know is if this works on ECC memory. I'm guessing not, which makes the "vulnerability" even more of a non-issue in mission-critical applications that likely moved to ECC a while ago.
Yes, Rowhammer can bypass ECC. Forgot to include this in the article, mainly because there's so much Rowhammer research. See here: https://www.vusec.net/projects/eccploit/
It's really worth noting that ECC does impact Rowhammer effectiveness, even if it is not enough to prevent the attack 100% of the time.
Re: Google says Rowhammer attacks are gaining range as RAM is getting denser
#40In other words, blame Intel for trying to pass off ECC as a "Enterprise Feature" instead of the basic necessity that it is.
Agreed. Rowhammer is just one more example of this, but it's frustrating that ECC is not widely deployed.