Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

ft.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 236 posts

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#71

Post by MikeDelta »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #55
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #37

I am fascinated by the rise of 'chain analysis' companies - that started as 'aint it fun' and became 'hey we can help the cops track ransomware' quite quickly. The thing that fascinates me is ... we could do (very similar) analysis on "normal" bank accounts - on a much larger scale but still. I wonder how much criminal activity would be revealed?

I'd bet something similar is being done with traditional banking transactions by government agencies, if only to aid in parallel construction

And I believe banks seem to cooperate as well to the limits of what is allowed. Detecting Financial Crime (DFC) is (becoming) a big part of operations.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#72

Post by bsedlm »

I'm always left wondering about the invention (the encoding into laws) of "money laundering".

I believe that this happened at some point during the 70s right around the time congress declared "war on drugs"?

edit: aha, I refer to 91st USA congress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Drug_Abuse_Preve...

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#73

Post by JefffJohn555 »

b10c wrote: post #36
alcio wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, you can email it to your miner buddy. it's possible to spot such transactions if they violate transaction forwarding rules (aka standardness rules) but not consensus rules. for example, a transaction greater than 100kB is not standard but still valid.

I've build a tool to detect differences between _my local_ mempool and what miners include in their block (there will always be slight differences). This is primarily intended to detect censorship, but can also detect transactions that never entered _my_ mempool. See https://miningpool.observer

Brilliant! I remember thinking about this problem a few years back: what stops miners of a blockchain just ignoring transactions/anything from certain entities. So it's good that there exists a way to track such behaviour, if it is occurring.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#74

Post by iand »

xwdv wrote: post #64
lifeisstillgood wrote: post #37

I am fascinated by the rise of 'chain analysis' companies - that started as 'aint it fun' and became 'hey we can help the cops track ransomware' quite quickly. The thing that fascinates me is ... we could do (very similar) analysis on "normal" bank accounts - on a much larger scale but still. I wonder how much criminal activity would be revealed?

Once chain analysis becomes trivial, a major selling point of cryptocurrencies will be defeated. What then is the point?

It doesn't defeat the point of cryptocurrencies which is to create a currency free from a single point of control.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#76

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

I may be biased since I am holding and mining crypto, but I find recent slew of articles talking up the evils of crypto amusing. From eco evils to national security. Crypto is the culprit and banning it will bring salvation.

Just today my superior shared WSJ opinion piece saying it should be banned altogether. I genuinely chuckled. It was ignored for so long, but only now when it may be genuinely hard to just put down, because real players joined the fray, did the offensive PR started.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#77

Post by tootie »

pibechorro wrote: post #4

Probably easier for any serious criminal to just deal in cash and make deposits at the big banks, they have a long history of taking cartel money.

Traditional laundering operations are typically very expensive and subject to heavy scrutiny. Banks or other washers take a big cut. And if you're here talking banks which have been caught doing this then it isn't very secret anymore. Crypto can be laundered quickly, cheaply and safely. And in unlimited quantities.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#78

Post by vbezhenar »

m00dy wrote: post #13

I can tell one of the ways that is missing in the article. Let's say, you have a lot of Bitcoins and your buddy is a bitcoin miner. You craft your transaction such a way that you put all your coins as transaction fee. You send your transaction only to your buddy. Your buddy picks it up and solves the puzzle afterwards. Fees will be converted to brand new coins.

What's the point? It's not hidden after block is mined. You would hide your trace if blockchain analysis tools did not account for that use-case, but that's probably a known method.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#79

Post by DetroitThrow »

bsedlm wrote: post #72

I'm always left wondering about the invention (the encoding into laws) of "money laundering". I believe that this happened at some point during the 70s right around the time congress declared "war on drugs"? edit: aha, I refer to 91st USA congress: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_Secrecy_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Drug_Abuse_Preve...

It happened earlier: in the USA many laws and agencies related to it were brought out during prohibition.

Re: The rise of crypto laundries: how criminals cash out of Bitcoin

#80

Post by AzzieElbab »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #76

I may be biased since I am holding and mining crypto, but I find recent slew of articles talking up the evils of crypto amusing. From eco evils to national security. Crypto is the culprit and banning it will bring salvation. Just today my superior shared WSJ opinion piece saying it should be banned altogether. I genuinely chuckled. It was ignored for so long, but only now when it may be genuinely hard to just put dow…

I am pretty sure all the crypto in the world would not be enough to maintain well documented laundering schemes that cartels use.
Post reply on HN