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US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

theinquirer.net

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Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#71

Post by arihant »

I'll get downvoted for this.

Argument (I don't completely agree, but someone will make it sometime)- I think it is not good for humanity to trust the jurisdiction of a country which has demonstrated tainted judgement by getting involved in nuclear weapons and given their recent involvements in the middle east. The United States is not the country whose jurisdiction should control any form of worldwide open platform.

Just a thought. This stuff needs some sort of international law. No jurisdiction in the world is good enough to rule the web, in any damned way. We cannot take our narrow minds into the future for our race.

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#72

Post by dsl »

Sigi wrote: post #66
dsl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. .org is ran within the US too. So are .info, .biz, .edu, .me, .ws, and a bunch more. The problem is most of the ccTLDs are actually operated by one of three companies, all of which are based in the US.

I was checking to see if my .asia domain was safe, and found out that .info, .org, and my beloved .asia tld are operated by Afilias which, according to wikipedia, "is headquartered in Dublin". I'm prepared to believe that wikipedia is wrong, but you'll have to prove it. with references, citations, and what not :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Irish_Arrangement

The companies you are really looking for are Afilias USA, Inc and Afilias LLC. If they were really based out of Ireland, their IP space would be allocated by RIPE (Réseaux IP Européens) instead of ARIN (American Registry for Internet Numbers).

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#73

Post by CWuestefeld »

_delirium wrote: post #35
buro9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only US citizens have the right of due process.

That's not the case; non-citizens under U.S. jurisdiction also have due-process rights. For example, despite him being a French citizen, Dominique Strauss-Kahn is entitled to the standard Constitutional rights in his criminal trial, including things like being read Miranda rights, not being forced to testify against himself, and receiving a trial that accords with due process. If any of that were violated, he could a…

You're absolutely correct here. The 4th Amendment (giving protection from unreasonable search and seizure) starts off, "the right of the people...", not "the right of the citizens". Together with the 14th Amendment's Equal Protection clause, non-citizens get the same protections.

That said, the doctrine used in asset seizure cases (generally connected to the failed war on drugs) is that it's the seized property itself that is suspected to be guilty, and property doesn't have any of these rights. One can easily imagine them trying the same crap here.

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#74

Post by pyre »

adrianN wrote: post #46
Shenglong wrote: post #3

Is this a joke? I thought it might be serious until I read: ICE is not focusing its efforts just on web sites that stream dodgy content but those that link to them Please tell me this is a joke. I don't know whether to laugh or be sad.

AFAIK here in Germany you can get in trouble for linking to illegal content. That includes linking to software like AnyDVD that cracks encryption. I think heise.de, a big German tech-news site, got in trouble over that.

I think the point of the parent post was that ICE is only focusing on people linking to 'illegal streaming sites,' but not going after 'illegal streaming sites' themselves, which seems somewhat backwards. That would be like the "War on Drugs" focusing on arresting people that point out where you can find drug dealers, but not bothering to go after actual drug dealers.

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#75

Post by buro9 »

_delirium wrote: post #35
buro9 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only US citizens have the right of due process.

That's not the case; non-citizens under U.S. jurisdiction also have due-process rights. For example, despite him being a French citizen, Dominique Strauss-Kahn is entitled to the standard Constitutional rights in his criminal trial, including things like being read Miranda rights, not being forced to testify against himself, and receiving a trial that accords with due process. If any of that were violated, he could a…

You know, I didn't actually know that. Thanks for the clarification.

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#77

Post by pizza »

dstein wrote: post #54
dsl wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a billion times better than decentralized DNS. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hosts_file#History

I imagine a decentralized DNS service based on the bitcoin network would be kinda cool.

Check out namecoin.

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#78

Post by kijinbear »

dsl wrote: post #68
ThaddeusQuay wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only thing the US government has ever given up is control over the registry and DNS management. Under a MoU[1] that facility was handed over to ICANN ..." That's just a bureaucratic illusion. As we can see from recent domain seizures, the feds can take over any of these domains, unilaterally, and without any notice or due process.

Assets used in the commission of a crime can be seized regardless of if you are charged or even found guilty of that crime. Cars, boats, and houses are regularly seized from suspected drug dealers. None of these people have been deprived of due process. The due process is to go to the courts to challenge it. If you don't like either of these points, you'll need to go to the courts and have the laws changed or thrown…

I think it depends on what you mean by "due process." If you mean "whatever the law says the government can do, and/or what the government customarily does," there may have been no violation of due process.

However, the phrase "due process" also often means "what the law should say the government should do." Such an interpretation usually appeals to a higher moral authority, the Constitution, etc. This is how people often criticize the PATRIOT Act for violating due process, even though the PATRIOT Act defines clear processes to be followed. These people are saying, in effect, that the processes defined by existing law don't count as "due process."

You are right that court challenges are the way to fix problematic laws. But I disagree that "none of these people have been deprived of due process," because I think that any process worthy of being called "due process" should involve, among others, presumption of innocence until proven guilty, and a bunch of documents signed by judges. I don't know what the law is really like in the US, but seizing property in the absence of a criminal conviction (except temporarily, to gather evidence) sounds like a gross violation of due process.

Re: US claims all .com and .net websites are in its jurisdiction

#79

Post by kijinbear »

clistctrl wrote: post #61

I ask this completely seriously. What would it take to declare the domain of the internet as its own sovereign entity? The internet to me has become greater than just a communications network. It is a place where people connect/work/play. DNS is a natural resource, and should be regulated by all that is affected by it.

> DNS is a natural resource,

Interesting idea, but I don't think this analogy works. Sovereign nations routinely assume complete control over natural resources located within their territories. (Maybe they shouldn't, but that's another argument.)

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