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The media's lab leak fiasco

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Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#101

Post by chowells »

This article correctly notices at the very start that asking this question is of no value in resolving the current situation. Then the author seems to think they've uncovered a massive secret instead of continuing the thought.

Who wants this question in the public's mind? What are their goals in constantly pushing it, even though it does nothing to improve people's lives? What are the actual effects of pushing this question as if it was important?

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/21/one-third-o...

I think it's better to not contribute to an environment of hatred towards large groups of people. Is the question potentially interesting? Sure, I suppose. But there's a huge difference between idly thinking about something and telling everybody else that they should as well. The latter has consequences, and you can't just ignore them.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#102

Post by Moodles »

defaultname wrote: post #77
Moodles wrote: post #16

The media is so disappointing these days. A lot of people don't remember this, but the mainstream media outlets were actually playing down the coronavirus pandemic at the start. Then they attacked the travel ban to China. Then did a complete U-turn. Pelosi was dancing in the streets of Chinatown San Francisco to prove how safe and not racist she is. It seemed like they hated Trump and would fight anything he did. htt…

None of the articles you cite demonstrate what you seem to think they do. When the number of cases was minuscule, the threat to Americans was low and those articles were spot on: Keep vigilant, get your flu shot, but don't stress too much yet. Citing Pelosi visiting San Francisco (at a time when there were zero cases in the region, but a growing number of anti-Asian hate crimes) again doesn't make a point to any reas…

> More critically, you have a higher standard of every random article in every newspaper than you do of agencies actually responsible. Which is truly dystopian.

> But you find issue with the media.

> Incredible.

The HN topic is about the media, so I'm talking about the media.

> Speaking of which, Trump's "travel ban" (that wasn't a travel ban) was the single action taken after the virus was already spreading uncontrolled in NY, Washington State, and Europe. It did nothing to restrict US citizens traveling to and from the affected areas unrestrained, which thousands continued to do, even if we believed it would be remotely effective at that point

I'm not defending Trump. I'm pointing out media hypocrisy. What did they do? Call the travel ban racist. Their behaviour has been very partisan, often at the expense of the truth. Exhibit A: the lab leak theory in the OP.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#103

Post by beaner »

cratermoon wrote: post #92
beaner wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it require a cover-up so vast? All you need to keep the secret is blocking access from international investigators and the silence of the very few people originally involved. There's tons of precedent of harsh and inhumane penalties for saying things the government doesn't want you to from within China. And international investigation is quite simple to decline, you just say no. I don't think it's as complic…

You vastly underestimate the number of people who would have to be silent or silenced. People are terrible at keeping secrets.

I mean, citations please. If it really was a lab leak, who is to say it wasn't from a small specialized research team, maybe some academics who were aware of the science but not the implementation, and a couple people in management? The project does not need to have been a huge, nefarious, x-files program. That sounds like the conspiracy theory to me.

I think you might be vastly overestimating how many people would even have been knowledgeable about it in the first place.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#104

Post by andybak »

generalizations wrote: post #13
andybak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally in favour of the actions taken against misinformation but this situation surprises me. Lab leak always seemed plausible and non-crazy even if you think the odds are against it. I don't envy the task of making a call on any of this stuff.

If we accept that taking action against misinformation is good, then this sort of mistake will inevitably happen. If you're in favor of taking action against misinformation, then you should be willing to accept this situation as an acceptable failure. I'm not willing to accept that.

The perfect is the enemy of the good?

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#105

Post by tomjen3 »

generalizations wrote: post #13
andybak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm generally in favour of the actions taken against misinformation but this situation surprises me. Lab leak always seemed plausible and non-crazy even if you think the odds are against it. I don't envy the task of making a call on any of this stuff.

If we accept that taking action against misinformation is good, then this sort of mistake will inevitably happen. If you're in favor of taking action against misinformation, then you should be willing to accept this situation as an acceptable failure. I'm not willing to accept that.

That assumes a binary situation, but it can be a sliding scale.

A system that prevents only Holocaust denial and flat earth theories is unlikely to ban anything that is actually true.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#106

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

enraged_camel wrote: post #88
908B64B197 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting how media coverage completely changed. Under the previous administration it was considered racist to even mention the theory and it's proponents were considered racists or conspiracy theorists. Why such a sudden change? China certainly didn't change its position on the issue...

People ask this as some sort of weird gotcha, but it’s actually not that interesting, nor should it be surprising. After all, the previous administration was filled with habitual liars at every level who kept pushing “alternative facts” over observable reality and shat on the media at every opportunity. As such, everything they claimed was viewed as a likely lie, and rightly so. New developments have happened as well…

> the previous administration was filled with habitual liars at every level who kept pushing “alternative facts” over observable reality

As opposed to now? US/Mexico boarder

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#107

Post by RV86 »

IMO, determining the origin of the virus is of much more consequence than who was right and who was wrong back in 2020. If the virus crossed over naturally, it's reasonable to conjecture that this sort of thing is going to happen more and more often in the future. If it was human error in a lab, I would actually be relieved -- this seems like something that's much easier to correct. FWIW, I do think available evidence supports a lab leak more than any other hypothesis.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#108

Post by johncena33 »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #79
cratermoon wrote: post #29

"If the question is “are both hypotheses possible?” the answer is yes. Both are possible. If the question is “are they equally likely?” the answer is absolutely not. One hypothesis requires a colossal cover-up and the silent, unswerving, leak-proof compliance of a vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials for over a year. The other requires only for biology to behave as it always has, for a fami…

The reality of this quote doesn’t justify censorship

The author is making the "vast network of scientists, govt. officials, and civillians" argument, which doesn't even pass the BS test. Few dozens researchers in Wuhan lab and CCP officials are more than enough to accomplish the cover up.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#109

Post by byset »

fsckboy wrote: post #83

Not just the media, folks, also the rest of our "sense making apparatus". Wikipedia has been suppressing lab leak discussion, and still to this moment will not allow the old Lab Leak Hypothesis page back. It still redirects to a declared "Misinformation!" page https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=COVID-19_lab_leak... And guess where else lab leak was suppressed? Here on HN. Yes, dang, you suppressed discussion…

"And guess where else lab leak was suppressed? Here on HN."

And maybe is still getting suppressed? This post was #1 on HN one minute, and then, less than an hour later, it's down on page 3, ranked #88. Does the HN ranking algorithm really bury stuff that quickly?

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#110

Post by jjk166 »

imwillofficial wrote: post #56
HappySweeney wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, like me, many dismissed the lab-leak theory because it sounded like yet-another attempt to push the blame for all the unnecessary death from Trump to China, as well as the cavalcade of doctors stating that the DNA of the virus was clearly not artificially constructed.

So you’re saying you formed an important opinion on a impactful topic without reviewing the evidence? Maybe you should change that

There was no evidence to review. Even now the whole reason we are having this discussion is because over a year later there has still not been an adequate investigation and lots of statements made early on have since been shown to be false.

And frankly, in the absence of evidence, some guy getting sick from bad meat at a market is a much simpler explanation than an artificially created virus escaped from an institution with good safety standards. Only after an extensive search for the host has come back empty and the institution's actions have been found to be questionable does occam's razor meaningfully shift, and even then it's still hardly certain that this alternative theory is actually correct.

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