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The media's lab leak fiasco

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Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#71

Post by colechristensen »

908B64B197 wrote: post #43
partiallypro wrote: post #4

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

Interesting how media coverage completely changed. Under the previous administration it was considered racist to even mention the theory and it's proponents were considered racists or conspiracy theorists. Why such a sudden change? China certainly didn't change its position on the issue...

Because it’s no longer a talking point for the “other side” that everyone has to disagree with automatically.

A fool insisting it’s a sunny day does not make it rain.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#72

Post by scottrogowski »

deadalus wrote: post #5

Reminder that Facebook and Twitter banned users for talking about the lab-leak theory. Youtube accounts also got demontized/banned.

This should be the top comment. Social media companies can either be monopolies or they can put limits on the speech of their platform... but they can't do both.

While not against the law of freedom of speech, political moderation processes are certainly against the intent. Every once in a while we get a case like this where an unpopular fringe opinion becomes mainstream and underlines the point. But this isn't just a matter of Facebook / Twitter / YouTube needing a better moderation process - this is more fundamental. No person or organization - no matter how benevolent or wise - should have the power to declare truth in a society.

Fringe opinions need constitutional protection - regardless of the era or the technology.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#73

Post by newaccount2021 »

Moodles wrote: post #16

The media is so disappointing these days. A lot of people don't remember this, but the mainstream media outlets were actually playing down the coronavirus pandemic at the start. Then they attacked the travel ban to China. Then did a complete U-turn. Pelosi was dancing in the streets of Chinatown San Francisco to prove how safe and not racist she is. It seemed like they hated Trump and would fight anything he did. htt…

you have to understand, all of the Orange Checkmarks of HN are Democrat cultists

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#75

Post by mschuster91 »

fastball wrote: post #21
dbt00 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this thinking is assuming the government of China actually knows the truth and is acting to protect itself from a dangerous reveal. They might not have known then (or now!) and are simply acting based on some probability it could be true, default secrecy, and organizational fear.

This seems less plausible. Presumably the PRC knows exactly what kind of research was happening in Wuhan. It should be fairly clear to anyone who worked in that lab if COVID-19 came from there.

(Real)communist countries are notorious for local party representatives falsifying or mis-representing data to their superiors.

Incentives gone wrong - when you risk getting gulag'd for missing your quarterly numbers, you will fudge your numbers.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#76

Post by whydoibother »

tristanj wrote: post #8
partiallypro wrote: post #4

To me what gives me credence to the "lab leak theory" more than anything, was China's behavior during and initially after the outbreak. Where they thwarted any investigations from WHO or anyone else and arrested journalists even attempting to cover it. Now we have additional information of lab workers being sick back in November...I genuinely wonder why people immediately jumped in to defend China's actions through t…

The biggest sign for me is how the Chinese government threatened to charge medical workers with espionage if they speak about what happened during the early stages of the outbreak. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2020/11/9833532bb925-chin... Consider the following: How can a medical worker speaking about their own experience working at a hospital in any way constitute espionage? If found guilty of espionage, by la…

Do you have any other source on this? Searching around showed nothing.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#77

Post by defaultname »

Moodles wrote: post #16

The media is so disappointing these days. A lot of people don't remember this, but the mainstream media outlets were actually playing down the coronavirus pandemic at the start. Then they attacked the travel ban to China. Then did a complete U-turn. Pelosi was dancing in the streets of Chinatown San Francisco to prove how safe and not racist she is. It seemed like they hated Trump and would fight anything he did. htt…

None of the articles you cite demonstrate what you seem to think they do. When the number of cases was minuscule, the threat to Americans was low and those articles were spot on: Keep vigilant, get your flu shot, but don't stress too much yet. Citing Pelosi visiting San Francisco (at a time when there were zero cases in the region, but a growing number of anti-Asian hate crimes) again doesn't make a point to any reasonable person. These claims speak only to zealots.

More critically, you have a higher standard of every random article in every newspaper than you do of agencies actually responsible. Which is truly dystopian.

Speaking of which, Trump's "travel ban" (that wasn't a travel ban) was the single action taken after the virus was already spreading uncontrolled in NY, Washington State, and Europe. It did nothing to restrict US citizens traveling to and from the affected areas unrestrained, which thousands continued to do, even if we believed it would be remotely effective at that point. It did nothing for testing or tracing. It was the laziest, least-effort action possible. And to be clear, long after all of these things, Trump declared that the number of cases would soon be 0. He made similar "nothingburger" comments for months.

But you find issue with the media.

Incredible.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#78

Post by speeder »

Empact wrote: post #22

As for policy consequences, how about this one: The United States directly and indirectly funded the Wuhan laboratory, and so bears some responsibility for the virus. It also appears Fauci and others were aware of the deficiencies of the institution. The US should end its support for dangerous research in institutions outside of its purview.

I am not from US.

Back during early pandemy when not only some US politicians blamed China, Chinese politicians blamed US, when people asked me in person about it, I would explain that both are saying the truth.

Obama banned gain of function research in 2015, right after some papers about Coronavirus specifically attracted attention.

The fact that US government continued not just gain of function research, but research into Coronavirus exactly, that was what caused the ban in first place, is something I think the US citizens really need to figure out what to do about it.

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#79

Post by throwaway69123 »

cratermoon wrote: post #29

"If the question is “are both hypotheses possible?” the answer is yes. Both are possible. If the question is “are they equally likely?” the answer is absolutely not. One hypothesis requires a colossal cover-up and the silent, unswerving, leak-proof compliance of a vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials for over a year. The other requires only for biology to behave as it always has, for a fami…

The reality of this quote doesn’t justify censorship

Re: The media's lab leak fiasco

#80

Post by zdragnar »

cratermoon wrote: post #29

"If the question is “are both hypotheses possible?” the answer is yes. Both are possible. If the question is “are they equally likely?” the answer is absolutely not. One hypothesis requires a colossal cover-up and the silent, unswerving, leak-proof compliance of a vast network of scientists, civilians, and government officials for over a year. The other requires only for biology to behave as it always has, for a fami…

The cover up didn't need to be colossal, just for everyone to point to occams razor and call anyone with a hint of curiosity a racist.

The fact that the origin of the outbreak appears to be in the same vicinity as a lab that experiments on similar viruses alone is sufficient reason to want a thorough investigation.

Otherwise, the odds that nature produced such a virus, in such a location, make for a crazy coincidence, given that we havent been facing this problem every year for decades.

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