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Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

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Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#31

Post by boomboomsubban »

fsckboy wrote: post #24

I'm skeptical. No matter how good the Phoenician sailors were, it seems unlikely to me that they could have blithely sailed past Cape Bojador[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador Maybe if they had small enough boats to stick close to the shore and portage. Seafaring on the Mediterranean is simply a lot less complex than it is on the open ocean. The European sailors were not able to pass this point till the 1…

This mentions the main problem is a sudden shift in wind direction, but would that cause the same issues coming from the south?

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#32

Post by tastyfreeze »

fsckboy wrote: post #24

I'm skeptical. No matter how good the Phoenician sailors were, it seems unlikely to me that they could have blithely sailed past Cape Bojador[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador Maybe if they had small enough boats to stick close to the shore and portage. Seafaring on the Mediterranean is simply a lot less complex than it is on the open ocean. The European sailors were not able to pass this point till the 1…

Footnotes are useful to not break the flow of a thought with text that isn't meant to be read. Also, because of the link included at the end of a sentence, you were not able to include the conventional full stop immediately after the last character of the sentence.

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#33

Post by alan-crowe »

progre wrote: post #29
fsckboy wrote: post #24

I'm skeptical. No matter how good the Phoenician sailors were, it seems unlikely to me that they could have blithely sailed past Cape Bojador[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador Maybe if they had small enough boats to stick close to the shore and portage. Seafaring on the Mediterranean is simply a lot less complex than it is on the open ocean. The European sailors were not able to pass this point till the 1…

Why not? The Phoenicians had rowers and could just take down their sails. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trireme they also beached their boats at night so they must have been quite comfortable traveling over shallows.

Doesn't "rowing" imply having lots of hungry rowers to feed and therefore a limited range?

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#34

Post by _0w8t »

edgyquant wrote: post #8
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #3

I'm blown away that the Phoenicians (w/ Egyptians) circumnavigated Africa in 600BC and ... during 2000 years, it was assumed that it was a legend, until being proved otherwise only in 1488 - just a few years before America was (officially) discovered.

I’m not convinced they did. Not only is this an account by a notorious “liar” (as herodotus is known) but the Egyptians were notoriously bad at sailing due to being spoiled by the Nile. When they travelled in the Red Sea they famously hugged the coast stopping at sundown and they hardly ever went far out on the Mediterranean.

The story alleged it were Phoenicians, not Egyptians, who sailed. And those were the best sailors at that time.

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#35

Post by Someone »

wsc981 wrote: post #21
detritus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for one, at least, if the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew the world was spherical (as they did, and had an approximate measure of its dimension), this could be easily predicted and might make part of whatever speculative discussion they had that was the equivalence of HN or general interested internerdery here. The second is harder to find an excuse for. (O/T) Of interest to me is something I learned from HN - h…

There’s this guy, Randall Carlson, who claims the great pyramid of Cheops is a scaled version of the northern hemisphere. If true, I guess it would mean the Egyptians knew the earth was round. https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/the-great-pyramid-de...

_If_ they thought that was a scale model of half of earth, they must have thought the earth has the shape of an octahedron (possibly a slightly deformed one), not that of a sphere.

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#36

Post by clint »

alan-crowe wrote: post #33
progre wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? The Phoenicians had rowers and could just take down their sails. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trireme they also beached their boats at night so they must have been quite comfortable traveling over shallows.

Doesn't "rowing" imply having lots of hungry rowers to feed and therefore a limited range?

Why do you think they were stopping every couple of months to sow a whole harvest of grain before moving on?

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#37

Post by FredPret »

wsc981 wrote: post #21
detritus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As for one, at least, if the Ancient Greeks and Egyptians knew the world was spherical (as they did, and had an approximate measure of its dimension), this could be easily predicted and might make part of whatever speculative discussion they had that was the equivalence of HN or general interested internerdery here. The second is harder to find an excuse for. (O/T) Of interest to me is something I learned from HN - h…

There’s this guy, Randall Carlson, who claims the great pyramid of Cheops is a scaled version of the northern hemisphere. If true, I guess it would mean the Egyptians knew the earth was round. https://sacredgeometryinternational.com/the-great-pyramid-de...

“Sacred geometry”?

Beware this type of thing. It’s an introduction to madness.

Some of these pyramid folks claim that they were built as signposts for alien landing strips. And it gets more and more nuts from there.

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#38

Post by legitster »

progre wrote: post #29
fsckboy wrote: post #24

I'm skeptical. No matter how good the Phoenician sailors were, it seems unlikely to me that they could have blithely sailed past Cape Bojador[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador Maybe if they had small enough boats to stick close to the shore and portage. Seafaring on the Mediterranean is simply a lot less complex than it is on the open ocean. The European sailors were not able to pass this point till the 1…

Why not? The Phoenicians had rowers and could just take down their sails. According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trireme they also beached their boats at night so they must have been quite comfortable traveling over shallows.

I think beaching the boats at night and having large rowing crews makes it less likely that they could have circumnavigated Africa. You'd double the amount of time it would take, 6x the amount of food and water needed, and infinitely increase the chance of a hostile encounter.

Not saying it couldn't be done, but the logistics boggle the mind.

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#39

Post by clint »

edgyquant wrote: post #8
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #3

I'm blown away that the Phoenicians (w/ Egyptians) circumnavigated Africa in 600BC and ... during 2000 years, it was assumed that it was a legend, until being proved otherwise only in 1488 - just a few years before America was (officially) discovered.

I’m not convinced they did. Not only is this an account by a notorious “liar” (as herodotus is known) but the Egyptians were notoriously bad at sailing due to being spoiled by the Nile. When they travelled in the Red Sea they famously hugged the coast stopping at sundown and they hardly ever went far out on the Mediterranean.

The article does not contend that "Egyptians Circumnavigated Africa" it says that Egyptians hired Phoenicians to engage in an Egyptian-funded circumnavigation of Africa"

Re: Egyptian Circumnavigation of Africa ~600 BC

#40

Post by eloff »

fsckboy wrote: post #24

I'm skeptical. No matter how good the Phoenician sailors were, it seems unlikely to me that they could have blithely sailed past Cape Bojador[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Bojador Maybe if they had small enough boats to stick close to the shore and portage. Seafaring on the Mediterranean is simply a lot less complex than it is on the open ocean. The European sailors were not able to pass this point till the 1…

Fascinating. A passable route was discovered in 1434 by the Portuguese.

> Examining the Pilot Charts for this area, however, it becomes clear that the main concern lies in the changes in winds that occur at about the point at which Cape Bojador is passed in sailing down the coast. It is here that the winds start to blow strongly from the northeast at all seasons. Together with the half-knot set of current down the coast, these conditions would naturally alarm a medieval mariner used to sailing close to the land and having no knowledge of what lay ahead. In the end it was discovered that by sailing well out to sea—far out of sight of land—a more favorable wind could be picked up.

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