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Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#91

Post by dkonofalski »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

I'm confused. If a new left-only turn lane was added, wouldn't it have steered you into that new lane? How did it steer you into oncoming traffic?

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#92

Post by FpUser »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

>"I haven't engaged autopilot since then"

Good choice, personally I can't imagine myself using "Autopilot" in a first place.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#93

Post by camjohnson26 »

bpodgursky wrote: post #62
dragontamer wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://web.archive.org/web/20210312022048/https://www.tesla... I'm pulling this from archive.org, because Tesla has removed this blogpost from their servers. As recently as March, they kept this pro-Radar blogpost up. Only now are they purging this data from their archives. Fortunately, the Internet Archive remembers the history, so they won't find it so easy to rewrite history in their favor.

That post is from 2016. From an engineering blog. Do you really expect, or even want, companies to go back and purge all old engineering blogs which they now disagree with? By calling out an old post as evidence that they are "pro-lidar", you're the one forcing companies to try to curate the public history of their development process. That's not healthy. Don't do that.

It’s radar, not lidar, and the point is that Tesla thought the post was contradictory enough to remove it, while all the other content from 2016 is still there.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#94

Post by paxys »

towergratis wrote: post #45

Did I read that correctly? Are they removing the feature from existing cars as well? And that's because Tesla decided to ditch radar due to chip shortages? We moved from "You don't own your computer" to "You don't own your car" really fast

No you did not read that correctly. There is no indication whether Tesla is going to remove the feature from existing cars or not.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#95

Post by spicybright »

paxys wrote: post #79
gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

Well it's still a "beta" feature, so according to Tesla you shouldn't have trusted it in the first place.

Live roads and endangering people's lives is a poor place to be beta testing. Test data shouldn't be generated by blood.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#96

Post by ghoward »

gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

More people need to see your comment because there seems to be a belief that full self driving is just around the corner. However, IMO, it will never happen because it needs a full artificial general intelligence.

In your case, the new lane was clearly marked, which just shows how weak the system really is. Imagine if there was snow covering the lane markings. Or sunlight reflecting off of the road confuses the vision.

People bought the self-driving hype because the first 80% was easy. They forgot that the next 20%, as usual, would be incredibly hard, if not impossible.

Personally, I will never be okay riding in a car that is on autopilot. Heck, I'm not even okay with the amount of automation in airplane cockpits. [1] [2]

[1]: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/faa-report-pilots-addi... [2]: https://hbr.org/2017/09/the-tragic-crash-of-flight-af447-sho...

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#97

Post by snypher »

nemothekid wrote: post #85
gauravphoenix wrote: post #58

>removing radar sensors to transition to a camera-based Autopilot system A few weeks back, I had a terrible experience while using auto pilot. I was driving on a highway (in CA) with autopilot engaged. For the most part, there was a concrete median on the highway. Suddenly, a section came with no concrete median and a new left only turn lane gets added. For whatever reasons, autopilot thought it is a great idea to su…

If you are in the Bay Area, I think I know exactly what intersection you are talking about and I'm surprised it hasn't been fix. Someone died in a Model X at that intersection a couple years ago. https://mv-voice.com/news/2018/03/23/car-fire-closes-lanes-o...

Is it this exit (carpool lane over to 85)?

37.4110753, -122.0761614

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#98

Post by Alex3917 »

nradov wrote: post #28
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NHTSA tested Tesla cars that had radar modules. Tesla has decided to remove the radar modules and use only vision systems. The new vision-only models are not NHTSA certified yet, so the NHTSA had to clarify that the safety certification only applies to vehicles shipped before the vision-only transition. That is, any vehicle with radar is still certified, but the new vehicles will apparently ship untested.

And it is possible to meet NHTSA certification requirements for recommended safety technology with vision-only systems. Subaru has done that for years.

Teslas are basically just overpriced knockoff Subarus that don't actually work properly. The independent testing data has shown this for years, e.g.: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a24511826/safety-featu...

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#99

Post by mbreese »

nemothekid wrote: post #69
aaomidi wrote: post #40

This decision from Tesla is going to get people killed. Tesla owners, we should sue Tesla for this. They're going to take away features that influenced our purchasing decision with an OTA update. This should not be allowed.

AFAIK, If you have a Tesla already, it will still use Radar. Model S/X also keep Radar. It's being removed from Model 3/Y. I placed an order in early April and I'm kind of miffed that (1) my delivery was delayed (my original order was supposed to be 4-8 weeks, I'm currently slated for ~10 weeks) (2) there seems to be supply chain issues, but the company denies it (3) after not shipping in cars for 2 months, they anno…

I really hope the radar is still going to be active if you have the hardware. If they don't, I'd expect lawyers to be involved sooner rather than later.

I know they revamped the production of Model 3's just after Q1. In late March, the wait times were 2-12 weeks. However, this was a big overestimate. If you had an order in then, you could have gotten in within 3-4 weeks (late April/early May). But this production change was for a change in the interior trim. It looks like the radar change is different. Given the fact that they already had a production change at the end of Q1, I highly suspect that dropping radar was a supply chain issue. This was probably planned for a while, but the supply issues may have forced the timeline.

I'll be very curious to know they will support the two systems going forward. Hopefully the radar-less system is just as accurate, but I'd be happier if there were multiple systems to make these decisions.

Re: Tesla loses U.S. designation for some advanced safety features

#100

Post by valine »

bumby wrote: post #49
chronic83027 wrote: post #27

- Tesla is lacking radar modules due to chip shortage - As a result, Tesla can’t make vehicles - Tesla (as always) is cutting it close to making a profit - Therefore, sell cars without radar - This “profit squeeze” is corroborated by this week’s (May 27) increase in vehicle prices by $500-$2,000, the reintroduction of enhanced autopilot for $4,000 and Elon trying to pump n dump crypto again with his “crypto eco-overs…

> Tesla is lacking radar modules due to the chip shortage Is there evidence this is the motivation for the decision? I’m not skeptical, just couldn’t find it in the article. When I first read it, I assumed it a was a technology choice as there seems to be competing camps between cameras and radar. Musk has previously stated he was in the camera camp because they provide more information and I figured this was just a…

The radar chip shortage is pure speculation, no official word from Tesla on it. Seems to fit though as we know some M3 and MY were waiting on a part to ship. It's likely that Tesla was close to removing radar anyway and decided to accelerate the switch to pure vision.
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