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LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

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Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to diminish the link above and it's efforts but how a first world society has to resort to stuff like this is just mind-boggling. I'm an expat in a developing country and even for the poorest people a roof over their heads is affordable. Everytime I go back to Australia or visit Europe I'm always shocked at the level of homelessness, it's just not right. Why are dirt-poor countries able to house their ci…

>> I'm an expat in a developing country and even for the poorest people a roof over their heads is affordable. It's affordable here, too. Just not in one of the wealthiest and thus most expensive cities in the United States.

That's a fair call, there's certainly places in the states that treat it as yet another utility rather than an investment.

From my experience in Asia the attitude is so wildly different, they build more houses than is ever needed, people can run stores and sell basic goods out of their spare front room for a few hours a day as side income.

I'm not familiar with local laws in the US but in Australia you'd get fined a few thousand dollars trying to sell groceries from a house in suburbia, many have to get in their cars and travel a few km to the designated "commercial" area simply to buy some bread. There's a lot the West could learn from the East yet we are far too stubborn to actually do it.

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#112

Posting this because most people in HN have a warped view of what homelessness is, especially in california. First of all, when most people think homeless they think "fentanyl addict out of his mind living in squalor" and while there are certainly a bunch of those people in the homeless population, they aren't even a majority of the homeless. In general, about 2/3 of the homeless are transiently homeless. They will b…

> They may have gotten into drugs or developed a mental issue in the first 12 months that they became homeless. These people are the "out of their minds" camp dwellers we think about when we think about the homeless. The biggest risk factor for being in this group is becoming homeless in the first place,

One of the things that took me along time to realize was simply not having a safe, quiet and stable place to sleep for an extended period time would drive virtually anyone into drugs, alcohol and mental illness.

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#113
This article takes the $2,600/tent at face value (maybe bc it’s click bait?) and never digs in: •what does it cost a jurisdiction to clean streets and parks of human feces when there are no portapotties? •what does it cost charities to run a soup kitchen when people have no means to store or cook food? •what cost the homeless when they are robbed and victimized?

All these costs -and much more- are external to the equation as presented.

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#114

Posting this because most people in HN have a warped view of what homelessness is, especially in california. First of all, when most people think homeless they think "fentanyl addict out of his mind living in squalor" and while there are certainly a bunch of those people in the homeless population, they aren't even a majority of the homeless. In general, about 2/3 of the homeless are transiently homeless. They will b…

Whenever I see someone who is quite clearly very recently homeless I give them as much money as I can afford to, like $50-100, because I feel like it can get them out of homelessness. When I see someone completely out of their mind I don’t feel like anything I can do will make a material difference, just get them different levels of stoned for the next 3 hours.

When you give $50-100, please employ them to do a task.

Ie. "Here's $50. Go and buy me some ice cream. You can have another $50 when you bring it to me".

It discourages begging and encourages an entrepreneur mentality.

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one big way to prevent this downward trend in quality of life is to build more cheap housing One pedantic quibble. It's not necessary to build cheap housing specifically. It's perfectly fine simply to build more housing of any type. Today's new expensive housing will indirectly create more cheap housing in the pre-existing housing stock, by pulling demand out of the market. Throughout all of American history, new h…

Today's new expensive housing will indirectly create more cheap housing in the pre-existing housing stock, by pulling demand out of the market. Only if people actually live in those houses, and they're bought by people living in the cheaper houses right now who then move up in to the new housing stock. If people buy the new houses as investments and leave them empty most of the year then it has no impact on the rest…

Why wouldn't "social housing" get gentrified?

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#116
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market housing creates affordable housing by displacing demand. No matter what kind of housing you build, as long as it gets built now it will lower prices now.

That assumes there are market incentives to actually fill the housing that is built. What about when buildings of hundreds of luxury condos are built and they just sit empty, either owned by disinterested "investors" or unwilling to be sold for the market-directed price? Someone who studied this in Toronto by overlaying nighttime photos to find units where the lights are literally never on: https://www.movesmartly.co…

That blogpost you cited says that there is a 5% vacancy rate. That's well within the normal range. So I don't see how it supports your argument.

https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/musne8/dispro...

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#117
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market housing creates affordable housing by displacing demand. No matter what kind of housing you build, as long as it gets built now it will lower prices now.

More luxery houses would lower prices for luxery housing, but not necessarily for affordable housing. I don't know how much those are competing markets

They compete strongly. Rich people pay a lot for junky apartments due to the shortage.

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#118
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one big way to prevent this downward trend in quality of life is to build more cheap housing One pedantic quibble. It's not necessary to build cheap housing specifically. It's perfectly fine simply to build more housing of any type. Today's new expensive housing will indirectly create more cheap housing in the pre-existing housing stock, by pulling demand out of the market. Throughout all of American history, new h…

I see you've read that CityObservatory article from a few years back [0]. Unfortunately as the Tiktaalik mentioned, we have a housing shortage now . So the trickle-down economics of luxury housing won't work for at least a generation. Also, all the actual luxury housing that ends up being built is bought by wealthy investors buying their third or fourth property. Just look at the housing market in London. > Throughou…

Why would you need to wait a generation? More like a couple of months. People who are moving to luxury housing live somewhere now, which is less new. When they move out of there, someone else can move in, etc. and on down the line freeing up multiple housing units one by one at ultimately different prices. It adds to the total housing stock in the city immediately.

And no, “all” the luxury housing is not being bought by investors. Even in places where this is a problem it is nowhere near “all”. Investors can also just buy existing housing. Once again, what you anti-housing folks are claiming as a problem of building new housing, is a problem that is going to happen anyway and will be even worse if we don’t build new housing.

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#119
post #8

> the per-tent cost covers services, meals, sanitation and staffing OK, so $2600 gets a fair bit. Also looking at the report [1] this rate is calculated by dividing the total cost of the pilot by the duration and number of clients. So that is including one-time set up, planning and evaluation in the cost, which is probably a decent fraction of the cost as it's only an 8 month pilot. The recurring cost for extending m…

As long as the local government has tons of money doing nothing in their budget, they are going to find a way to spend it, and they're not going to care if they overpay because what else are they going to spend it on? In coastal California, the rule is never ever give that money back by lowering taxes. Taxes only go up. If there's too much money being generated by the taxes to spend, start spending it on homelessness…

In most counties, I honestly think they try to spend every last cent in there budget, in order to ask for more the following year.

I live in a pretty good county (Marin County), but I am astonished over the waste of tax money.

I am too young to remember pre-prop 13, but waste was so much. Every year, no matter how much they took in in taxes, it was spent the following year, according to my father. (That's why Jarvis wrote a book called, I'm Mad as Hell. I have an autographed copy someone threw away.)

During the drought in the 70's ranchers were trucked in water, as a political favor. (I actually don't mind this one). Politicians were bought off legally with county tax money. Every night was a big hootenanny at Marin Joes. My point is there was a huge amount of waste.

O.k.--today is much better? Yea--you would think? I used to work at a county beach while in college. One day the maintance guts were throwing tools into a dumptster. Perfectly good chainsaws, hand tools, etc. I asked what's up? They told me if they didn't throw away the "broken tools", their budget would not be the same. I went back there at night and took three chain saws I still have to this day.

There's a department in my county called Open Space. They literally fill in their huge white trucks in the morning, throw some grass/litter in the back, and joy ride in the open space. They could nix this department, and cut back on police funds, and that money could go to a homeless fund. My county has no real crime. The cops are basically Revenue Collectors at this point.

My point is they will never claim to have extra money, unless we demand it.

I would like to see every bit of free County, federal, and state opened up to free camping.

Homelessness is beyond debate.

We need to act yesterday.

Sorry about sounding so preachy, but I know too many people getting ticked for sleeping because they don't have a home.

(Keep an eye on Sausalito, Ca. The authorities decided to get tough on anchor-outs. They decided to vigorously enforce a three day anchorage muni code.

They went beyond enforcement. They broke laws, but It's hard to prove because their is no video evidence. For instance, they towed boats for no reason. It's the city worker's word against a boater. It's like our version against a cop's version. A code that everyone has disregarded for years, including luxury yacht owners, like Allen from Microsoft. He would spend weeks docked in the same spot. (He had a beautiful yacht though.)

They wanted the low income boats out of their view. Rich people find poor people an eye sore. They were dirty homeless shiftless bums after all. Many older ladies were out there to. Probally druggies, or prostitutes? Just scummy people. Why should those wealthy residents have to look at that? (Ironically, every person who I have overheard saying, "Eye sore" has been genetically challenged aesthetically, but monetarily fit.)

Well the boaters having nowhere to go, set up tents in Dunphy Park. They are neat, and only had one provoked criminal arrest. (There brilliant plan of homeless harassment backfired for now?). Oh yea, Richardson Bay has had Anchor Outs since before the 50's. (Yes--Homeless Harassment is alive an well. You can call it Broken Window whatever, but it's nothing more than harassing peopke until they move on.)

The city told them to move to a toxic site, with a bunch of regulations, like early morning tent take down. One woman is disabled, and said she needed help setting up her tent, and needed somewhere to lie down during the day. Plus--a major symptom of depression is sleep reversal. Don't ask me how I know.

The homeless fought back. A kind advocacy group sued the city, and got a temporary restraining order.

In the USA, the Supreme court ruled you can't force homeless people to move, unless you have a bed for them. One win I love!

Right now the situation is up in the air. I heard there is ongoing harrasement from authorities, but I don't know for sure.

I'm getting tired. Just had the second vaccine dose, and it hit he hard. Flu symptoms for a day, and a half.)

Re: LA pays $2600 per homeless tent, per month

#120
post #76

I think the main takeaway here is government, as usual, thinking short term and spending more money on bandaid solutions. Yes, the $2600 gets you services, meals, sanitation and staffing. But in reality, you can get a decent 1BR apartment for $1500 that is waaay bigger than a tent, sanitation for free since it is an apartment, and have almost $1000 for groceries left over. And, you can fit more people in the apartmen…

The government is not thinking short term. They are turning that mostly useless parking lot into affordable apartments.

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