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Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

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Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#331

Post by eric-hu »

anaganisk wrote: post #36

I have an honest question, the real advantage of Vi is its installed everywhere, and just works over ssh. What is the benefit of a terminal IDE like neovim or vim with tens of something plugins? Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

I tried out neovim because of VSCode. The VSCode vim plugins are generally unsatisfying. They’re vim emulators at best. The plugin that uses neovim as a server is amazing.

I tried running it with neovim stable, but it always warned me that was unsupported and I got occasional bugs that required a VSCode reload. Thus, I’ve been on 0.5 nightly for a while. I didn’t know why the VSCode plugin demanded it. I think after reading this post, it’s the LSP support.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#332

Post by extrabot »

faho wrote: post #6

Does anyone know of a nice git interface for Neovim? I would love to get off of emacs, but it's hard to beat Magit. At the very least something that lets me view the repo status and stage selections would be good.

Have you seen neogit? https://github.com/TimUntersberger/neogit

It’s not feature complete but I’ve been using it for a few days and have been happy with it, as an ex-magit user

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#333

Post by the_duke »

oblio wrote: post #298
tombh wrote: post #212

I'm in the curiously rare position of being a long time Neo/vim user who doesn't use its modal features. Namely I have all my keybindings setup like a "normal" editor, CTRL+S to save etc. I say it's curious because I've always been surprised that Neo/vim is mainly celebrated as "that modal editor". Whereas for me I celebrate it as the most feature-packed and lightweight terminal editor. Neo/vim is sooo much more than…

I didn't go that far, but for small movements I use arrow keys. hjkl don't make any sense to me and I'm not keen on using them just because someone had that keyboard layout in 1978.

They make sense because they are directly under your fingers, so you don't have to move them all the way over to the arrow keys and back just to move around.

jkl; would make more sense, that's the only oddity.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#334

Post by iLemming »

martin1975 wrote: post #267

I just came to see how many search hits for "emacs" I will see in the comments, excluding mine, it's 65 :).

People compare them like they have relative differences. I'd argue that they are two incomparable categories.

I'm a die-hard Vimmer who uses Emacs, and it's now clear to me that when talking about Vim and Emacs, one has to emphasize their foundational values, ideas at the root.

Vim is an amazing, incredible idea. It's the most satisfying and productive way to navigate around any kind of text. And as long as we have keyboard input and keyboards, Vim will stay relevant.

And Emacs is based on another fantastic idea. Arguably - the greatest idea in Computer Science to this day. Lisp. And understanding Lisp is a prerequisite required to appreciate the power of Emacs.

From my personal experience, when people try to compare one to another - there's usually one-sided incomprehension. They either don't have sufficient experience using Vim, or they lack understanding Lisp.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#335

Post by isatty »

lefrenchy wrote: post #256

I see a lot of hate on Lua here. Anecdotal but I never wrote any plugins in vimscript. Since moving to Lua a week ago i’ve already written one, and will continue to where I find a use case. Vimscript sucks, using Lua will make it easier for people to contribute I think.

People generally dislike change. I don’t think it’s about _lua_, anything new would receive the same treatment.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#336

Post by unrealhoang »

anon946 wrote: post #229
curriculum wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No galaxy brain here ;) I generally don't use counts. If I want to go down a few lines, I don't count the number of lines and use 4j or whatever, I instead use / to search for the exact place I want to move to. This feels more natural and preserves the jump-list, so I can ctrl-o back to where I was. Same if I want to delete a few words. I don't count how many I want to delete and do 4daw, instead I do daw and press .…

I just use a fixed count, like 5j5j5j or whatever to get me close, then jjj or whatever.

I use ctrl + u/d to scroll up and down half screen to get near where I want to go.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#337

Post by iLemming »

faho wrote: post #17
nine_k wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why quit emacs when evil-mode exists? Fast startup times are solved by never quitting emacs :) Really, emacsclient starts nearly instantly, and all the heavy stuff like language servers and emacs proper just run in server mode. (Disclaimer: I know enough vi and often use it.)

I use emacs with evil-mode, and I don't have a problem with startup time (and that's without emacsclient, which I always found too annoying to deal with). My issue is I don't really like emacs' mode of operating, and even with evil-mode it still seeps through. I also don't like lisp.

> I also don't like lisp.

You don't like programming? That is precisely how that sounds.

Most programming languages in use today, one way or another, were influenced by Lisp.

If you seriously into programming, I suggest re-evaluating your point of view about it. Learning and understanding Lisp will make you a better programmer. I am not trying to sound like a patronizing dick. I honestly wish someone gave me that advice a long time ago. Who knows, maybe I would've become much more accomplished today.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#338

Post by sa46 »

aliceryhl wrote: post #258
anaganisk wrote: post #36

I have an honest question, the real advantage of Vi is its installed everywhere, and just works over ssh. What is the benefit of a terminal IDE like neovim or vim with tens of something plugins? Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

I have to disagree with "powerful IDEs do the work much better". It's just not true. Neovim with a few plugins (less than 10 is certainly enough) can definitely compete with IDEs.

I've used emacs for about 10 years (written plugins, declared emacs.d bankruptcy, gone all-in on org-mode), so I'm familiar with the pros of configurable editors.

Here's a list of more advanced functionality built into Intellij that would be difficult to replicate:

- Bullet-proof navigation and advanced refactoring that works every time across a wide variety of languages.

- Database integration: syntax highlighting for SQL code in strings, runnable sql, database introspection

- Debugging: consistency and polish across languages, not relying on external tools that might not be installed, visual debugger

Text-editors struggle with the "integrated" aspect of an IDE. It's not terribly difficult to coerce text editors to perform well for a single language. It's much harder to integrate plugins and provide a consistent experience.

There's good reasons to use text editors (learn how it all works, extreme customization, magit, lightweight) but there's many development tasks Intellij is just better at.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#339

Post by revscat »

Asooka wrote: post #307
jrop wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wanted to write Vim plugins, and as soon as 0.5 hits stable, I'm looking forward to trying! I won't touch VimScript with a 10-foot pole, and I write code for a living. It's not worth my time, and it does not commute to other things that I'd rather be spending my time coding.

But you can use Python to write Vim and NeoVim plugins already. It's arguably an even better language than Lua.

This is demonstrably and unequivocally untrue. Lua is designed to be fast, lightweight, and easy to use as an embedded scripting language. Python is a general-purpose kitchen sink language. Python is 10x bigger, and 10x slower than Lua. It is bad fit for an embedded language.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#340

Post by mekster »

Are there any inherent reasons that I should switch to neovim from vim?

Everytime I try to do that, I don't see immediate benefits and vim kind of catches up or plugins start to support vim and I just go back to vim as all my script keeps working there.

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