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Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

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Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#251

Post by dmitriid »

curriculum wrote: post #56
anaganisk wrote: post #36

I have an honest question, the real advantage of Vi is its installed everywhere, and just works over ssh. What is the benefit of a terminal IDE like neovim or vim with tens of something plugins? Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

It's a good question. I'm very critical of my tools and I'm a 10+ year vim user, so I've thought a lot about this. vim's "killer feature" is its text editing language and modality. But plenty of other editors and IDEs offer vim emulation to varying degrees of success. So this can't be the reason to use (neo)vim-the-binary as my editor over, e.g., VSCode. So for me the real advantage of vim is in its flexibility. I ca…

> y. I can make vim into whatever I want depending on the context. Because of this, I'm able to use the same vim in many different contexts, instead of having different tools for different tasks.

Better to have specialised tools for whatever they are good at than a tool that's isn't good at any, and you have to spend time cmolding it to be a pale imitation of specialised tools.

> I wouldn't want to open VSCode every time I want to write a quick note, for instance.

Why would you open VSCode? You open a note-taking app.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#252

Post by ZeroGravitas »

azinman2 wrote: post #67
curriculum wrote: post #37

I'm most excited for the treesitter integration and its potential to amplify Vim's "killer feature": text editing as a language. Vim's editing language feels most powerful when I'm using its text objects: "ciw" means "change in word", "cis" means "change in sentence", and so on. But Vim's built-in text objects are not always a perfect match for the code you're editing. Suppose you want to change the first argument of…

Do you find your brain can actually work that way? My issue with all of these relative jump points, repeat this N times, etc of VIM is by the time I’ve calculated in my mind what the command should be I’d have already done it with just standard navigation/mark/yank/repeat. But perhaps you have galaxy brain ;)

I don't use relative jumps or N times repeats, but I do love moving by or dealing with semantic units of things at a time, whether that is a character, w/Word, quoted string, bracket contents, line, paragraph, function, xml tag content etc. and treesitter expands and standardises that across languages, which is nice.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#253

Post by dmitriid »

majkinetor wrote: post #114
curriculum wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good question. I'm very critical of my tools and I'm a 10+ year vim user, so I've thought a lot about this. vim's "killer feature" is its text editing language and modality. But plenty of other editors and IDEs offer vim emulation to varying degrees of success. So this can't be the reason to use (neo)vim-the-binary as my editor over, e.g., VSCode. So for me the real advantage of vim is in its flexibility. I ca…

You can do that literary everywhere and with any editor, and even without editor. I created this when I was using vim: https://github.com/majkinetor/vim-omnipresence and this to be used with any OS control: https://github.com/majkinetor/isense-x (here used for AHK intelisense but that is just 1 usecase) The real benefit of vim vs any editor is modality and there is AFAIK nothing similar in any editor even with emulat…

> Editing/moving over text is just way faster with vim then any other editor (not just slightly faster, light years faster).

Text? Yes. Code? No. Since editing moving code is a subset of refactoring, and Vim has no knowledge about code.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#254

Post by dmitriid »

shmageggy wrote: post #57
becquerel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, vim is appealing because of the composable keyboard commands that let you navigate through text in a very powerful way. When you get good with it, it's way quicker than using a mouse. It also makes you feel cool, which is most important of all.

All modern IDEs have vim bindings.

Better still, all modern IDEs have tools that actually work with code, not text.

And navigating code is significantly fatser in an IDE than in Vim. This includes things like juping to definitions and implementations, finding call sites, fuzzy search on symbols (not text) and dozens and dozens of other things.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#255

Post by nobleach »

jgb1984 wrote: post #239

I'm a long time (20+ years) vim user, and neovim doesn't fit my use case. I've tried it, most recently today, to have a look at LSP and treesitter. Treesitter added different syntax colors, but the result wasn't necessarily better than vanilla vim. More like an overly decorated christmas tree. LSP and other "make it into an IDE" I usually turn off after a few minutes, it's more of a hindrance than a help. I mainly co…

Yeah, I've used Vim since the mid-nineties too. At first it was my "edit a config file in my RedHat 5.2" tool. Later, the more and more actual software dev I did, it became a daily driver. I am pretty sold on the "Vim way".

I have a workflow. It's hard for me to adopt new things into my worflow because my workflow works so well. I finally made the switch to NeoVim just over a year ago because I wanted to see what the fuss was about. I have to say, it's now firmly entrenched in my workflow. It's to the point where I'd be annoyed if I had to go back.

The one sticky point about your post that I wanted to highlight:

>I personally don't like Lua much

I can say that almost anything is better than VimScript... I hate every moment I have to mess around with it. The hardest part is, I don't use it for anything else so every time I dive in, I have to remember how it works. At least Lua is a multipurpose language and documentation/help are plentiful.

But, I get that the whole intellisense, popup windows, bling... those things are not for everyone. If they don't enhance your workflow, then you're never going to desire them.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#256

Post by lefrenchy »

I see a lot of hate on Lua here. Anecdotal but I never wrote any plugins in vimscript. Since moving to Lua a week ago i’ve already written one, and will continue to where I find a use case.

Vimscript sucks, using Lua will make it easier for people to contribute I think.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#257

Post by RMPR »

PestoDiRucola wrote: post #62
becquerel wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, vim is appealing because of the composable keyboard commands that let you navigate through text in a very powerful way. When you get good with it, it's way quicker than using a mouse. It also makes you feel cool, which is most important of all.

You can install a vi emulator that does all of that in most modern text editors or IDEs, VSCode included.

"all of that" is a bit of an overstatement ime.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#258

Post by aliceryhl »

anaganisk wrote: post #36

I have an honest question, the real advantage of Vi is its installed everywhere, and just works over ssh. What is the benefit of a terminal IDE like neovim or vim with tens of something plugins? Vscode or other powerful IDEs do the work much better.

I have to disagree with "powerful IDEs do the work much better". It's just not true. Neovim with a few plugins (less than 10 is certainly enough) can definitely compete with IDEs.

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#259

Post by majkinetor »

dmitriid wrote: post #253
majkinetor wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do that literary everywhere and with any editor, and even without editor. I created this when I was using vim: https://github.com/majkinetor/vim-omnipresence and this to be used with any OS control: https://github.com/majkinetor/isense-x (here used for AHK intelisense but that is just 1 usecase) The real benefit of vim vs any editor is modality and there is AFAIK nothing similar in any editor even with emulat…

> Editing/moving over text is just way faster with vim then any other editor (not just slightly faster, light years faster). Text? Yes. Code? No. Since editing moving code is a subset of refactoring, and Vim has no knowledge about code.

Well, this update is all about that so I guess... solved ?

Re: Neovim 0.5 is overpowering

#260

Post by ViViDboarder »

jgb1984 wrote: post #239

I'm a long time (20+ years) vim user, and neovim doesn't fit my use case. I've tried it, most recently today, to have a look at LSP and treesitter. Treesitter added different syntax colors, but the result wasn't necessarily better than vanilla vim. More like an overly decorated christmas tree. LSP and other "make it into an IDE" I usually turn off after a few minutes, it's more of a hindrance than a help. I mainly co…

Just a note on stability, you reference Neovim crashing when setting up Treesitter. That means you’re using an unstable version of Neovim as Treesitter and Lua configuration are in the unreleased version 0.5.

I’ve been using only stable Vim and Neovim and have not had either of them crash on me that I can remember.

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