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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#291

Post by fouric »

koube wrote: post #284
zlsa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

The Nintendo Switch can be bricked if you use the wrong cable, although my understanding is that it's not built to the USB-C spec: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_... Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device.

> it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device

This is the problem! This is what everybody talking about the specs doesn't get - it's difficult to (1) tell which spec a device claims to support and (2) verify that it actually supports it (see: a lot of cheap devices on Amazon) and also (3) in real life many devices do not support the specs (i.e. this isn't a theoretical problem).

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#292

Post by Klinky »

wearywanderer wrote: post #285
Klinky wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your suggested solution? Every potential configuration USB-C can offer needs its own physically different cable? We're going to need a dozen different form factors now. How do you do that at scale economically? How does it help when someone inevitably buys the USB-C cable with shape y when they need USB-C cable with shape x? It physically doesn't fit, great, but they still have the wrong cable and their devic…

They could, at the very least, enforce color coding. Colorblind people would still be left high and dry, but with the status quo everybody is up shit creek. > How does it help when someone inevitably buys the USB-C cable with shape y when they need USB-C cable with shape x? [...] They still have to take it back to the store. It helps because they know they have to go back to the store, and aren't left wondering if th…

USB3 did have blue color coding on the plastic interior of the connector. That doesn't exist on USB-C. You'd have to color-code the metallic connector or the connector housing. Forcing a color-coding scheme on the connector housing would clash with branding, so you'd likely end up with companies ignoring the color coding.

People will also ignore the color coding even if it existed. Counterfeiters would add the color to add legitimacy to their incompatible products. Color coding would not physically prevent you from plugging the cable in.

The people who feel gaslit over a USB-C cable not working would probably also feel gaslit over buying the "wrong USB C cable", because they bought a "USB C cable" and "USB C should just work, why do I have to remember which of 12 different connectors my computer uses, I thought the point of USB C was a unified connector".

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#293

Post by pastrami_panda »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #79
pastrami_panda wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically they're throttled by poor thermals. I'd be interested to know if anyone has recommendations for rtx grade laptops with nice CPUs in 15-17 inch form factor that doesn't throttle but are still somewhat portable. I have not found any but I think I've been testing too thin ones (XPS and Blade).

There are a number of "balanced" gaming laptops that cut back GPU power a bit to accommodate a thinner, lighter build without throttling often or at all. One such machine is the ASUS Zephyrus G14/G15 and in the next month or two, M16 which weigh ~4.5lbs and come with Ryzen 5000 mobile CPUs (up to 5900HS) and 95W variant RTX 3000 GPUs (up to RTX 3080). I've been using the G15 for the past month and it's not bad, kind…

Ok great info, gonna check for one with a huge battery. I'd like to learn more about undervolting and such to see how much battery you can save. I want to work on it on battery for long stretches of time, activating the GPU periodically to crunch or render something and then turning it off to save on power.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#294

Post by fouric »

sz4kerto wrote: post #257

USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :) I understand the problems of different cables, I've run into them already. One cable can do Thunderbolt, the other cannot. One cable transmits 4K video signal, the others doesn't transmit anything. And so on. However, it is sooooo much better than anything before because at least _most of the time_ stuff works. Chargers charge. Sometimes slower, sometim…

> USB-C bashing threads represent the 'HN echo chamber' for me. :)

I don't understand how you can possibly call it an "echo chamber" when there are (1) reasoned arguments (2) supported by facts with (3) dissenting opinions. That's almost the opposite of an echo chamber.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#295

Post by pastrami_panda »

mikepurvis wrote: post #160
pastrami_panda wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically they're throttled by poor thermals. I'd be interested to know if anyone has recommendations for rtx grade laptops with nice CPUs in 15-17 inch form factor that doesn't throttle but are still somewhat portable. I have not found any but I think I've been testing too thin ones (XPS and Blade).

Have XPS 9570, can confirm that it works gorgeously for a minute or two and then throttles down to nothing. This is both before and after opening it up to clean out the fans and redo the thermal paste.

I've had some luck forcing it to use integrated graphics until explicitly told otherwise, but CPUs tend to run hot as well. I have not yet tried new Zen processors but due to power draw I suspect they perform good in these conditions

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#296

Post by pedroma »

anfilt wrote: post #161
izacus wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly am I going to charge my phone, headphones, gamepad, tablet and bunch of other devices from a barrel connector? USB-C has pretty much eliminated forlorn MacBook users shambling around our office and looking for another soul to give them a compatible proprietary charger. Let's keep it this way.

None of those devices you listed need 240 watts... That's quite a bit power to just trust some protocol to negotiate correctly.

I use my MBP charger for my iPad and Android phone and it works well. Am I in the minority for doing this? Maybe, but my guess is not.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#297

Post by Yizahi »

asdff wrote: post #164
the_pwner224 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thunderbolt cables generally have a lightning bolt mark, and are expensive and short and thick+inflexible. And because of that, you likely don't have any except for the one coming out of a thunderbolt dock or external GPU enclosure etc.

My apple cable I believe is thunderbolt but I'm not sure. It's white with no marking.

Does it have frayed rubber isolation around connectors and randomly along the cable? If yes, then it is a genuine Apple (tm) cable. If it has solid isolation ad looks good then it's probably a Chinese knockoff. :)

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#298

Post by rini17 »

unwind wrote: post #74
rini17 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there cheap devices that measure USB cables? So that user plugs the cable into it (both ends) and it will list what protocols/bandwidth does it support. And electrical resistance of course.

That's a great idea, really! I guess it is not completely trivial though, and would probably end up costing a fair bit due to the max bandwidth etc. Just measuring resistance accurately enough for short cables for all conductors sounds hard.

In ideal world it would be part of spec of USB host that it can test cable and report to user. That would not be expensive at all.

Resistance is most important for power connection. To determine if voltage drop is acceptable does not need high accuracy.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#299

Post by chimeracoder »

koube wrote: post #284
zlsa wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be impossible for any set of non-damaged, non-defective, spec-compliant set of USB-C cables and peripherals to cause fires. The specifications are very carefully designed to prevent any combination of cables and devices from causing damage.

The Nintendo Switch can be bricked if you use the wrong cable, although my understanding is that it's not built to the USB-C spec: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSwitch/comments/87vmud/the_... Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device.

> Either way, this is an incredibly common device that can be damaged by incompatible hardware where it's difficult to determine compatibility without bricking the device.

This is 100% Nintendo's fault for using the USB-C connector type but not actually bothering to adhere to the USB-C specification.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#300

Post by DebtDeflation »

_ea1k wrote: post #120
mardifoufs wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's the problem. I've had a bent usb c (from a pretty good brand) literally melt into my hands. I'm so glad I was using the phone at the time, I don't know what could've happened if I wasn't there. The dent seemed pretty "small" too, and it was way less damaged than a lot of lightning/micro USB cables I've seen and used in the past. What I don't understand is how the cable doesn't have a way to detect a short…

I don't think the non-USB-c cables have any more safety features to prevent that. I'd be surprised if the USB-C ones do.

The original USB standard was 5V 0.5A, which wasn't going to start any fires.
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