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USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

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Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#201

Post by mamurphy »

jquery wrote: post #180
madsbuch wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or! We could go one step further, and change the connector to make sure that people use them correctly. Wouldn't that be clever!?

Didn’t Europe ban this?

jquery was downvoted but I recall articles like this (https://www.theverge.com/2020/1/17/21070848/eu-apple-europea...) with the EU trying to ban any "non-standard" connector.

Maybe non-standard connectors are actually a feature, not a bug, because everything having the same connector but not the same functionality will lead to confusion as described above.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#202

Post by wearywanderer »

skybrian wrote: post #174
cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary. It's nice to be able to charge a laptop with what you have, even if it doesn't charge quite as fast. You can transfer data over a cable at lower speeds even if it doesn't run at top speed. Using the "right" cable is performance optimization. This isn't like the old days when plugging things in the wrong way might damage your machine.

I can count the number of times I have ever had to charge my laptop with somebody else's cable on one hand. And I've been using laptops exclusively since 2006.

My current laptop (an XPS 9310) has USB-C for charging. But I would be very reticent to ever charge it with somebody else's cable, and without a 'usb condom' I wouldn't even consider charging from some random public cable (e.g. airport charging kiosks.) USB charging for laptops has the same "untrusted cable" problems as USB charging for cellphones.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#203

Post by sib »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #140
asdff wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, I would love to use an M1 chip that makes use of 240 watts. Could you imagine the power? Give me the option to trade efficiency for horsepower. When I hear things like "My M1 mac never turns on the fans" I wonder why the system isn't clocking higher if the cooling system is running so comfortably.

For most users the M1 is fast enough that a nicer user experience (no fan noise) is more worthwhile than slightly better performance. My friend recently purchased a MacBook Air with M1. There's no fan at all. It's incredible. It's a block of metal that just works.

For 20 years (ok, more, really), laptops have not been fast enough to do reasonable professional-grade photo editing using standard Adobe tools. The complexity of the algorithms being applied increases at least as fast as the processor power. So, put me down on the side of wishing they'd build a SKU that could be optimized for performance, rather than only power consumption.

(Sometimes a desktop is not practical, like on a remote photo assignment, but there is a power outlet.)

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#204

Post by SiVal »

ohazi wrote: post #141
grlass wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if the the committee have looked at integrating colour or some other indicator into the standard so that cable/port capabilities are clear visually. Though ofc the design challenge is for users to feel comfortable that putting red into blue won't break anything, it just might not give the expected features.

Indicator recommendations are routinely ignored. There are already color codes for type-A ports, and there's the "lightning bolt" indicator for Thunderbolt USB-C ports, but PC manufacturers ignore them when they want their laptops to have a certain look and feel (e.g. gaming laptops want red or green everything, Apple wants aluminum everything, etc.). Cable manufacturers are going to do whatever is cheapest.

Since the design philosophy behind USB-C is "it must always seem as though it should work", I think we'll need something like the old "tube testers" a few of us still remember.

Decades ago, when your TV was behaving badly, you would take the back off (unplug first!), pull the vacuum tubes out, and take them in a bag to the nearest convenience store. They had a "tube tester" the size of a washing machine. You'd plug each tube into a connector, one at a time, press the "test" button, and the needle on the dial would show good/poor/fail. The body of the tester was a cabinet containing replacement tubes you could buy (and which you could even test right there).

We might need to start using USB-C cable testers. Plug in a new cable, get a good/poor/fail analysis of each potential USB-C feature, then you mark your cable yourself with some labeling scheme.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#205

Post by kiwijamo »

burundi_coffee wrote: post #4
banger180 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USB-c Power Delivery does not require an intel CPU, so I don't see a problem.

I think he was referring to the absurd amount of power some Intel CPUs require.

My SO has an AMD gaming laptop that came with a 135W power supply. Surprised the heck out of me as I typically see Lenovo/Apple laptops with 45W or 65W power supplies. Doesn't seem to be an Intel-only thing.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#206

Post by mixmastamyk »

Causality1 wrote: post #99
jessikat wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least USB-A receptacles were coloured... did we really need to descend into hell for a slightly slimmer reversible plug that wears out even faster than USB-A cables?

Not to mention they're significantly thicker and wider than the micro-b socket they replaced, so many tiny products will continue shipping with micro-b indefinitely. Also I've destroyed probably half a dozen of them by accidentally stepping on or rolling my chair over the connector and smushing it flat.

The little ones broke too often.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#207

Post by MisterTea »

skybrian wrote: post #174
cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary. It's nice to be able to charge a laptop with what you have, even if it doesn't charge quite as fast. You can transfer data over a cable at lower speeds even if it doesn't run at top speed. Using the "right" cable is performance optimization. This isn't like the old days when plugging things in the wrong way might damage your machine.

> It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary.

Spoken like a true gaslit tech user.

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#208

Post by jayd16 »

cletus wrote: post #11

I look forward to USB 4.1a Type C.2 Phase iii.b Gen 3E and the 482646282 different cable capability combinations that all plug in and have no distinction of those capabilities whatsoever. I also look forward to all the necessary and helpful posts telling me how the identical ports on my laptop are in fact diffferent despite their identical appearance. But at least everything uses the same plug, so that’s nice.

I'd much rather have this and all the fallback than "well it could work but they put a little nub on the port so it doesn't fit."

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#209

Post by chrisacky »

andrewmunsell wrote: post #182
skybrian wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually is sort of nice, because "works" isn't binary. It's nice to be able to charge a laptop with what you have, even if it doesn't charge quite as fast. You can transfer data over a cable at lower speeds even if it doesn't run at top speed. Using the "right" cable is performance optimization. This isn't like the old days when plugging things in the wrong way might damage your machine.

Explaining to my aunt or uncle or grandparents that, no, the cable and charger they bought isn't the right one for their phone/laptop/whatever even though it fits isn't ideal. Sure, it might just charge slowly (cue family tech support call), but it could also just show "not charging" on OS X for example, which is just confusing for most people. It's a real problem, even if tech savvy people are fine with lower charge…

Even I have this problem. I bbought an amp reader and throw out anything reporting below 0.4ma/h. So many devices come bundles with poor cables my house is riddled with cables that I just never want to use for charging.

I'm actually TERRIFIED of pluggin anything in to my kids Switch other than Nintendo's official cable, incase I brick i t.

Does anyone know if they've patched this? I have some Dell laptop charger USB-Cs which I use alot, and I've had to caution everything in the family to never plug the Switch into it despite it fitting and despite every room in the house having such a charger...

Re: USB-C is about to go from 100W to 240W, enough to power beefier laptops

#210

Post by bcrosby95 »

nindalf wrote: post #14

This is pretty good for the people who have such laptops, but I’m just struggling to understand the use case for a laptop. A laptop that consumes that much power can’t possibly have much battery life. At that point, are you getting much portability out of your laptop? Why not just use a desktop?

I use my laptop as a portable desktop and plug it in where I'm going. I have zero use case for a laptop that isn't plugged in.
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